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I want to start a discussion here about a topic near and dear to Matt Hall's heart. Matt and I have debated this issue numerous times from different points, but I think that the issue Matt raises is important and would like to see it discussed in a different fashion.

Matt argues that baskets are constructed in such a way that discs can too easily fly through the chains. He says we should develop a standard that doesn't allow this. He lists at least two baskets that meet his definition of adequate i.e. we already have baskets by which we could set a higher standard. Both use heavier chains and other tools to keep the disc in the basket.

My argument has always been that a good finesse shot will stay in the basket and Matt should take some off. Matt putts fairly hard (I should point out I've not seen Matt putt in some time and he has posted that he's taken a good deal of omphhh off his shot).

That said, I think Matt's position does have merit and I'd like to get a more general opinion. Let me give one example for you to think about. If you're putting in the wind, knowing you can put some heat on your shot without it cutting through changes your approach to the shot. That might be a good thing. However, we should be aware that baskets which will take more heat will change the game. Players will putt harder because they will be able to. One could argue that would be more exciting.

So the question, what do people think? Do they think that "stiffer" baskets that allow harder putting would be a benefit to the sport?

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Putting harder would be an irrelevant side effect, baskets don't do enough as it is and should be better. Putts bounce out all too often, and who says a hard putt isn't ok? A putt that hits the center at anything less than midrange speed shouldn't go flying out back of a target. It adds too much inconsistency to the game, but then again so do Cement/Rubber/Dirt/Grass/Rock/Woodchip and Sandy tees.
Chains are optional. I don't think that stiffer chains would benifit the "sport", only those who drive too hard at the basket =) Part of the fun is figuring out how to putt at the target with enough control to get it to stay in. If a player has to throw at the target like they would a drive, maybe the player would be better off with a layup instead. Just my 2 cents.
I've always thought there should be more standardization, as it stands now I think the only true requirement is the space between the top of the basket rim and the upper piece that holds the chains. Technology and demand , I think, is there to make several improvements in the next generation of baskets. For one, there is no reason anymore to have the nibs of the basket sides come up OVER the top rim of the basket-- those can easily be secured under the top rim and make that a level plane all the way around.
I should explain that I said stiffer because I'm lazy. Stiffer didn't mean stiffer chains it meant that it would be harder to have a cut through. My stiffer would be more akin to the stiff British upper lip stiffer than rigid...
All that needs to be done is we need to look at the weaknesses some baskets have and eliminate them. Some have gaps in the chains to the pole, others have the chains hanging straight which I have found increases cut throughs, Mach IIIs have gaps about 2/3 up in the chains on the right and left side, and finally some have a ring that will bounce discs out or just 18 chains such as a Mach II.


Anyway I like Titans and Discatchers the most even though many people hat the Belt on the DCs it doesn't bother me as I would rather hit that than the Knuckle on a Mach and have my disc kick up and roll.


Anyway it seems like every round there is at least one guy who throws a putt in solid and it doesn't stick and everyone just stands around with an awkward feeling in the air. Oh Schweb told me last night he had a bounceout from 12ft during a round he shot a 1076 rated 39 this weekend. Heck i know in my highest rated round i had a 10ft putt go through and then roll down a hill for a two stroke swing .


Anyway I'll be back later to respond to this more.
One thing I want to note here is that it is obvious that Matt doesn't have a personal life... :) Anyone who knows this much about baskets can't...

On the other hand, it does make it hard to argue with Matt.

The concept that baskets should be structured so that you aren't penalized seems incredibly valid to me. If your shot is a mm different from the other guy's on the card and you hit a nub that kicks you out 30 feet, IMNSHO, you got robbed.
Id be willing to vote for Matt as the PDGA basket director
Those "nibs" around the basket are put there for a purpose. Steady Ed had those in mind so you couldn't just slide in luckily over a smooth rim. The are called "the hooks of headrick". It makes you putt more dead center and higher. I don't think baskets need to be changed. Look at Bowling for example... You can hit the pocket of the pins perfectly every time but it doesn't guarantee a strike every time. You don't see pro bowlers complaining
about that at all. Everyone sees a perfect 3 pointer jump shot go about halfway down the basket only to come back out. Should we make the rims bigger? Should we make the basketball smaller? There is such a thing called too perfect of a shot. And I'm ok with that. Them's the breaks as they say. If we change things about our sport just to improve a fluke thing that happens not very often to make any difference at all... Then we will lose our credibility as a sport. Why you ask? Because there will be no element of risk in the hardest department of Disc Golf. PUTTING. All sports have minor fluky imperfections. Everyone knows they happen. But thats what makes it exciting. Thats why we play. To beat those odds. To see what can go wrong and overcome it. Why question our equipment? Hit the putt next time. Peace.
I agree with Ruben completely. Quit whinning and just make the putt. There will never be a perfect basket because you can't account for every variable in a putt. Different discs, different styles, hard or soft and the list goes on.
I'd just like to see them be remotely similar. In any other sport is there that kind of variation? Is a hockey net different sizes in different arenas?
So we're supposed to be bound to and by the traditions of the past?!?! Come on, the resources are there, theres a rule book, lets get some standardizations.

Ed's purpose was avoid luck? Any putt that would clear the rim of the basket WITHOUT those nibs is not luck, its a good putt - one that might or might not hit a nib depending on what your line into the basket is. They were obviously easier and stronger with that connection wrapped around the top of the rim but now it's not necessary to add that stability. Metallurgy has come a long way baby!
"Quit whinning and just make the putt"


I practice putting for at least an hour a day and the thing I'm whining about is putting the putt where it needs to be and it hits the pole and comes right back at you. There are already baskets on the market which catch great but most just catch decent but will still spit 5% of solid putts. Anyway I have a basket in my backyard that catches everything and one that always screws me on my 30ft putt make percentages almost every time.

I I played a tournament in Louisiana and parked the 26th of 27 holes about10ft away and was putting for the only bird

and to move into a tie for 2nd. The basket was a Mach II which only has 18 chains compared to 24 on everything else

so I had a bad feeling to start with. It was only a 10ft putt so I just lobbed it in and it split the two outer chains (might as

well have not been there) hit the pole and came back out and rolled about 70ft down the hill. There was a decent

gallery that had to move out of the way and things got pretty quiet. I hit the putt for three in the heart and went on to the

next hole and didn't even know what to think. I ended up canning a long jump putt on the next hole that put me into a

3way tie for 2nd but was mad about that putt just a hole back. In the skins match afterward I had a 75ft putt hit dead in

the sweet spot, turn vertical, and bounce out the back.


Oh and I pretty sure blowing by would be a risk for people who putt hard (especially in the wind). It isn't even the hard putts that spit it is the softer ones too.

Putt on a Titan and try to get a spit. Discatchers are great too IMO and I want to hear anyone that doesn't like them for another reason besides the belt.

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