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I made this disscussion for a group of friends as a way to vent. LOL (JK) and to get a general concences to see how TD's stop people from doing it. like pro's droping down to advance because they know they can't win. that week

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I didn't know they started another thread about Kevin Gomez LOL
I'm confused, I throw no further than my group of Am's, I throw no more accurate than my group of Am's, however, I score better or more consistant. But I am the Bagger. Now on any given day, you will not see me kick my bag, throw it down, launch discs into the woods (intentionally) or throw tantrums. I keep a consistant, level head, of course I swear and get mad at myself for the errant shot) but never loosing my cool or quiting, I always try and overcome. But yet, I am the bagger. The night before a tourny, I think the whole course over in my head, I play out my shot in my mind while on the tee, and even after smacking a tree, I visualize how I can recover and keep par. I never have to many birdies, mostly pars, but yet I am the bagger. I carry only 5 discs and a putter because I now what I can do with each disc (or what is supposed to happen with each disc) but I know my game, and still, I am the bagger. My game is not better than many of the group I play with but maybe my strategy is, I dont know. But if this makes you a bagger, than I am happy with the nickname "#1 Bagger".
Sorry for going off like that. :) I stand by my statements, but I certainly could've said them nicer.
Good point but your still a Bagger
I would say in a way being called a bagger is a small compliment. You have to be moderately good to be called one. However it's tough to be called a bagger in OPEN. But.... I would say that people being called a bagger are aren't always that consistant, at least in the AM2 or 3 division. They have the ability to throw good rounds, but they don't always do it. I see those guys in the intermediate division throwing a 930-970 rated round and then coming back for rd2 and tossing a 895 rated round. They don't usually feel like they can compete, but playing in a lower round usually gives them a 2 stroke advantage. All I know is go out there to have fun, and if you don't like what's happening... then do something about it and get better.
this is what i was trying to say at a local course i play 2-3 times a week i can have a scores ranging from 3down to 11over in a total of 6 rounds i know how to play im just not consitent
here's the way i see it. "{bagger- someone who doesn't want to challenge them self, instead they want free plastic." is it cool? no. are they sweet? no. does that change their opinion? no. in my opinion baggers rob themselves of what they could achieve. i was called a bagger when i won an am int. division but that was the last tournament i played at that level. not because of someone labeling me as a bagger, but because i felt that i needed to play at a higher level to get more out of the tournament. i have yet to win any adv. tourney, but i can say that i have had more fun playing long tees and better courses because of the move. if one does not want to challenge them self and play the game to really compete then they will bag forever and may not care, but if one is true to the sport and wants to become a better player year after year and improve on their game they won't bag, rather move up and take the hit of not getting payed out afterwards until they improve to the next level.
The funny part about the St. Louis example is that since the ratings have opened peoples eyes, the Amateur scene has developed and the ratio of Open to Am players is pretty good. Now that the 930ish rated guys are staying Am, the Gateway Pros whine endlessly about all the "baggers" in St. Louis who don't play up in Open to donate to them. So either we are small market idiots who don't know what it takes to be a real Open player, or we are baggers who are afraid of the big bad Open players. There is no winning on this issue.
In a small market you're not an idiot for moving up if you don't travel much. If you have one 980 rated pro and a couple of 960 rated pros, the 940 rated guys can cash and the 920 rated guys can cash if the 900 rated guys play pro and everyone can feel good about themselves.

It has to be rough on the TD. Where are the ams to feather his bed?

In a big market where you have a dozen 980+ rated pros, good luck breaking into the pro cash until you're there too.
It is only rough to TD if you are scamming your AMs.

It becomes a slippery slope. People used to scream at me for this scenario: I'm running a local flight. It's 9:45 am and I've got 15 players signed up for Open. You look up and Dave McCormack is pulling into the parking lot. John Ruvalcaba is in the passenger seat. Suddenly four or five guys are in the pavilion who have changed their mind and want to play Masters.

I always let them change, and the players left in Open would scream at me for letting them "bag." Well, if it is an issue about where you can be competitive there is no problem. Adding the Daviar and Robo in the field DID eliminate guys from contention.

From a standpoint of how you spend your free time, I'm not big on assuming everyone plays for the same reason. People will throw out that you will never be as good as you can be if you duck competition. What about the guys who do this for fun? Who says that a guy who works hard all week has to come out on the weekend looking to be the best that they can be? This is their recreational free time, not the Army. If those guys just wanted to come out and play for fun and play in the division they had the best chance of competing in, why do I care?

Most guys are never going to tour. We have families and jobs and mortgage payments. In the grand scheme of life, being the best disc golfer that I can be is way on down the list. Being the best disc golfer that I can be isn't even in my top 10 reason of why I play disc golf. If somebody thinks they can call me names and suddenly motivate me to improve my game and reach my highest potential as a player, they are sadly mistaken.

The ratings have done a good job IMO of taking care of many of the good players playing down for prizes. The sandbagging problem we are left with is mostly perception. The PDGA version of disc golf is based on guys playing up. I'm not trying to be a professional disc golfer, so I'm not going to play up. Guys who have bit down hard on the PDGA dream think I'm a bagger. I'm not going to play up to make them happy, so there you go. Much ado about nothing.
hmmmm To call someone a bagger (not that there aren't a number of them out there) is usually done by those who wish they had more skill and love to whine how those who put in the time and are on the move as players. I was always accused of bagging but had my own agenda for when my time would be right to move into the pro level. ie I wanted a shot at the worlds and a few other tournaments before making my move upwards to pro. now on the flip side of that there are guys with pro ratings and lower who do stay in their divisions way past the time to move up for selfish reasons....to them, well how hollow the victory is because after a while people will look down on you even when you do finally move up and the better the players you play against the better you become... so move when you know the time is right, be gracious when you win, and learn when you don't.
just my 2 cents

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