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I've got a wraith and I don't really throw it that often depending...you know.

But everyone is preaching about how great it is and stuff. At our course I throw it on our only downhill shot and our CTP hole, other than that, it just fills up space in the bag.

I haven't found any use for it besides downhill drives...

Am I doing something wrong?

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I'm with Mark, if you can throw it well downhill, then you should be able to throw it well on level ground or even uphill! Maybe its the angle of the nose of the disc which is causing you issues. One thing is that theres a difference between overpowering a disc and just a normal anhyzer throw, which might be confusing. Basically if you can overpower a disc, throwing RHBH you can release it dead level (or even with a hyzer angle), and the disc will flip over to an anhyzer angle and then (hopefully) coime back to level then fade out, giving you big D. WIth a standard anhyzer throw you release the disc on an anhyzer angle, it will head off to the right then level out and fade to the left, giving you the helix or s-curve flight pattern. One of the guys on my course is teaching me to do this with an ESP Crush i just got, its tricky but worth it if you can do a hyzer-flip (option 1).

My apologies to most of you guys and girls that already know this stuff, but its an important distinction to make if people aren't unaware, or for the beginners just learning all the terminology and different throws. A destroyer SHOULD be harder to throw than a Wraith for a player with only moderate snap (like me!), because the Wraith is slightly slower and more understable (should be easier to overpower) than the Destroyer. Plastics make a difference here too though, as Champion plastic mostly tends to be a bit more stable than the same model in Star plastic, so this could be part of the issue. Kyle, if any of your buddies have a Star Wraith, give it a throw and you'll see the difference between the plastics. Glad the Destroyer is working out for you, I used to use one for my sidearm throws, but now i use Bosses and Xcalibers (I wouldnt dream of throwing these discs backhand unless I wanted a mega-hard left turning disc!).

In short, I like Wraiths. Keep working on the disc until you "learn" it, they're pretty handy!
I have to say that i love my Wraith for slight anhyzer shots and thinks it works really well for this. At my home course there is only one hole i use it for but if i didnt have it i wouldnt know what to use on this hole.

and i also think that Aviars Rock!
First of all I'll throw my lot in with the "I love this disc" group.

This is the first disc I have been able to get the great audible "Snap" with. It is actually a fairly common thing for newer players like myself to throw this disc wrong. When I first got it I was told to throw it with the front edge down and the wing edge slightly up. I did not understand this! I kept throwing the way I had and didn't improve at all.

Then I used it on a downhill shot where the tee also was angled downhill. the tendency on this hole was to throw the disc with the front edge down and because of the angle of the tee I also was throwing it with the wing edge slightly up. THE DISC FLEW LIKE NEVER BEFORE.

I now use that hole to throw my bag before playing a round and increase the muscle memory to hold the disc correctly and get it to fly to it's maximum ability...

I would be willing to bet that you are doing the same thing and you just didn't realize what release angle your using.
That's a good explanation.
I just figured out how to 'overpower' my throws, but on accident... so I didn't understand what i was doiong at first. but I tried to replicate the throw and eventually figured it out with both forehand and backhand posture. it has improved my drive distance anywhere form 30-80' depending on the disc, and whether it's forehand or backhand.
A few nights ago, I spent a couple hours at the local middle school's baseball field which has two back-stops on opposite ends. the idea was to throw every disc my bag as far as possible, from one backstop to the other using the backstops to 'catch' or stop the discs. 400 ft from end to end. Between my beasts, orcs, eagles, 150 class valkyrie and an inferno, my 164g DX beast was the only one to go from end to end using an 'overpowered' sidearm shot. the others came up short... no more than 350'

So I picked up my first detroyer yesterday and tried the same shot. the thing gained a lot of distance in a hurry, but then smacked into a tree in the first part of flight about 200' down course, and right before turning over for more D. I can't wait to get it out in the open and see what it will do.

not sure about the Wraith, but I suspect that if Kyle tried the same throw with his Wraith, that he would get similar results.

Can't stand my champion aviar BTW...although I once borrowed a star aviar and enjoyed a decent, more consistent game. Lowered my handicap by replacing my champion aviar with a roc.

nitegolfer said:
BTW, Aviars rule!

Oh, this was about the Wraith. Yep. Lots of people talk about the Wraith and for good reason. From the posts here, however, you may not get why the Wraith is a good disc because you may not be able to "overpower" the disc at this point. Overpowering a disc is throwing it flat or with some hyzer with "snap" and the pure speed and spin on the disc will cause it to "flip-up-and-over" some during its flight path and go for extra distance.

I've been throwing (BH) Sidewinders over the last year and now they are too understable for the amount of "snap" I am putting on them so I am moving up to the Wraith. I bought one a year ago or so and liked it but haven't used it much because I was getting good distance and control with the Sidewinder.

I went to a disc shop today to pick up a couple of Wraiths (12x) and the stack of 30 Wraiths that were there 2 months ago were gone. Oh well.

Good Luck.
Wraiths are a good long disc... Lighter or beat in discs might be easier to throw if your having trouble throwing long. I have to hyzer my 165 Star to get it to go straight. It will overcome the hyzer and hold the line before falling left, or it might still go right if I really rip it. My Champion at 169 is really worn and won't turn over to the right as much, but still does. You probably already know how all that works though. My next step is to try some 170+ Star Wraiths and find out which one I like.
When you beat up (i.e grip too hard or breath on) a Pro Wraith, it can become a nice understable control driver with a bit of fight to not flip and roll.
I'm throwing a White Star Wraith at 168 grams and it's stable.
Wraith's a nice disc once you learn it's uses and quirks. It's definitely the distance champ in my bag, although I don't have a destroyer yet. On throws that turn Archangel's and Beasts over into rollers it merely turns over slightly and flies a long long time. It's also a great trick disc for sharp dog legs. I'm an LHBH thrower most of the time and it's great for sharp right dog legs. Throw it 60% power or so level and it goes out about 100' and turns sharply right and towards the end of the flight dives sharply and skips nicely for another 30' or more. Used it a lot on some tight wooded dog legs and it's bagged me a lot of birdies and a couple of aces in these situations. It's a very predictable disc - but you have to throw it a lot a fair bit to learn how it works. I've thrown it in both Star and Pro.

Regarding Aviars - I use one fairly regularly as a putter but mostly I prefer an old school Aero for approaches and short drives.
Best disc in my bag, i can always count on it. Even on short drives i can miraculously still get it to about where i want it.
i love the boss.....threw it in a creek though at chickasaw, al......wraith is my go to driver until i buy a new boss
I throw all wraith and have one way understable destroyer and a boss one my one and only dx wraith has began to flip over on me so i have started throwing it on a slight hyser and it flatens out perfectly and i can get about 300 off it. my champ wraiths both are pretty overstable but then again i havn't thrown them as much as my dx wraith then i also have 2 star wraiths these fly a little more stable then my dx and a little less stable then my champions. but i do use my dx for thumbers and hammers acctually i use all of them for that. but I would say practice with it if you really want to use it to figure out what it does do on a flat plane


three wraiths in the bag all star plastic. new for the reliable break . old one for turn over shots and well one in the middle go to driver. just love them. head wind tail wind no wind just let them rip.

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