The Disc I am Looking For

I started playing and collecting in 1993. At the time I didn't know what to collect so I collected anything interesting. Within a few years my interest narrowed so that I sought out those discs that I most wanted to throw. So every time I picked up a new gem I hoped it might one day make it into my playing bag.

I realize now, that for maximum collecting value (which I don't especially care about), I made at least two mistakes. (1) A disc which is older and rarer has greater dollar value than a disc which actually flies better. (2) A driver is worth less than a putter or midrange (my hundreds of cyclones, x-clones and banshees-primary drivers in my game over the years-are worth little now)

The disc which I actively throw and collect is the Discraft Rattler. I have plenty of goodies to trade.

[Bill Burns]

The first disc that Discraft released with this "tough" plastic was the Skystreak, and I first saw it at the 1983 WDGC in Huntsville. Somebody took their disc outside the tourney HQ hotel, and we took turns throwing it as hard as we could against the brick wall of the hotel. I'm sure it might have damaged it a little, but compared to what any other disc would have done, I can't remember any damage to it at all! I believe that there was nylon added to the polymer blend of the disc and that is what made it so tough.

The Skystreak was non-beveled, and the closest disc it resembled at the time, as far as the profile, was the Midnight Flyer 71 Mold without the flight rings, but that is probably not much help to most of you out there.

BTW, I started collecting in 1979, but I have sold slmost all of my collection and am not actively collecting now, but I still now, and I used to do, occasionally go through my collection and remember where I got it, or the tournament it commemorates, or just other good times.

[Arthur Haverkamp]

I think I got you beat Mark.
I started to play in 1985 and have most of the discs I started with.
At the time my sponsor only had Discraft plastic(he wasn't my sponsor then but anyway he only had Discraft).
You're looking for Rattlers?
He still might have those(brand new).The guy has boxes filled with old stuff....
Just make a list and I will go to him and check it out.

I still have my first disc which was a sky streak.
I also have Cruisers,Phantom and a Phantom+, a Coupe, a softie 86 mold, a 71 mold,a 86 mold,afew Aero's and a disc that looks like an stingray but it has the rings on top of the flight plate and it is from Wham-O but made by Innova(stamp: 10th Annual / Coors La Mirada Open/1987 pdga national championships).Most of them are used but they still like good(on my walls).
Then I also have a few of the old Lightning stuff like their first model( a soft pink one and a hard grey one),the F-15.
The Phenix.....man there is so much.lol

First runs and proto's.
I still might have a first run Puma?
Got also a couple first run's X-Clones.
I loved that disc!
I always used it for sidearms and I could toss a 148 gramms really far....

I don't know how much discs I have but I know that most of them are rare nowadays.
But the old ones are all used,some like alot and some just a bit.

Then I also have a fairly good collection of proto and first runs from Innova and those are all pretty mint.

I don't really like to trade. I rather sell them all.
I have kinda enough of looking and them for all these years...
But I am a fair guy who will give you a fair deal( I think hahaha).

[Scott Kickbusch]

This is a response to Brian Matthews question. I guess we ran out of "Reply to's" for that question.

I ran a course called White Birch in Hazelwood, MO. It was designed by Ed Headrick in 1979. 18 holes on seven acres, property locked on all sides. Lots of elevation changes, lots of trees and an OB creek right in the middle. It is a really good example of original disc golf course design.

The problem is that is measures about 3500 ft for 18 holes and it is almost 30 years old. A lot of trees die in 30 years and the amount of traffic the course gets makes it impossible to plant new ones. The bozo's would tear them out of the ground when we planted them. The distances were challenging for Midnight Flyers, but not for an Aero. So as trees died and discs technology allowed players to throw farther, White Birch became obsolete. An Advanced player can play the course pretty easily with just a putter and finish 5 or 6 strokes under par. With no land to expand to, it is what it is. However, it had a great following. In the 90's it was easily the most heavily played course in St. Louis.

Short courses are often derisively called "pitch and putt" courses. Pro’s hate them. Personally I preferred the term "deuce or die." It was the truth at White Birch, as you had to shoot 10-12 strokes down for 18 to win an event there.

While I worked there I tried to get players to use putters and mid-ranges. You CAN throw a Viper on a 180 ft hole, but it takes some terrible form to do it. I wanted to encourage my guys to throw Aviars or Magnets on those holes, use better form and become better players. Throwing drivers on 180 ft holes, especially overstable drivers, was not going to make them better players. The wind really plays no factor in that, as even in a strong wind you ought to be able to put some hyzer on an Aviar and throw 180 ft.

I hope that explains things.

[Brian Matthews]

Yes, it does, and you provided some interesting background on what sounds like a very unique course, one I wouldn't mind trying, if only for the history behind it. Thanks for that!

[Scott Kickbusch]

I'm drifting from the point of this discussion, but White Birch is essentially an unaltered Ed Headrick design. Some of the wooded shots are a lot more open now, but you can still get the jist of it. I wonder how many Headrick-designed courses are still around that have not been significantly redesigned.

To get closer to the point, I tried to hold a "Classic Disc" tournament at White Birch. The idea was to get back to the roots of the sport and play the course as it was intended. I got a bunch of Super Puppies, and we had a one-disc tournament using the Puppies. The players hated it. They had gotten so used to throwing Stingrays and Cobras on 170 ft holes that they had a hard time adjusting to the old technology. Once you open Pandora's Box...

[Bill Burns]

I remember playing this course, c. 1984-5, using mostly Midnight Flyers, with great success, since I was used to playing short, wooded courses like the KOA Kampground course in Peru, IN. If the course has not been redesigned much since then, I am glad that it is still being maintained, since I imagine that there are many other course to choose from in the greater STL area.

[Scott Kickbusch]

I moved from the area in 2000 and have not been back to White Birch in a while, but Bob Waidmann has been active at that course for almost 30 years now. He keeps things going. Bob is an old school disc collector, I'll have to try to get him to join this club.

[larry mann]

I've still got a phantom from the '88 worlds package. However age has made it destructible. Just by cleaning it I cracked it in 2 places.

[Scott Kickbusch]

larry mann said:

I've still got a phantom from the '88 worlds package. However age has made it destructible. Just by cleaning it I cracked it in 2 places.

That reminds me of a funny story (at least funny to me.) Bob Waidmann talked me into ordering some custom stamped discs for a tournament once, which after we placed the order we started to realize that we were both on the hook for about $300.00 and we were going to lose our shirts on the deal. So at the event Bob brought out some old collectible plastic to sell to try to offset his losses. He had this mint condition brown Aviar XD that somebody had agreed to buy, the guy just had to come back with the cash. As he was picking up the disc to set it aside, the flight plate FELL OUT of the disc. Just the whole flight plate in a perfect circle popped out and fell on the ground. So Bob is standing there with the rim in his hand, looking down at the flight plate on the ground. Finally he looked up as said "Lets see how it flies" and tosses the rim backhand. It flipped and rolled around in a big circle, and Bob grumbled something like "I waited 10 years to throw THAT?!?" Plastic is not meant to last forever.
That was ten years ago. I still have 10 or so discs with that tournament stamp. Time and the fact that I have a funny story to tell about it have lessened the pain I felt in my pocketbook on that deal.

[riverboy]

Scott Kickbusch said:

larry mann said:

I've still got a phantom from the '88 worlds package. However age has made it destructible. Just by cleaning it I cracked it in 2 places.

That reminds me of a funny story (at least funny to me.) Bob Waidmann talked me into ordering some custom stamped discs for a tournament once, which after we placed the order we started to realize that we were both on the hook for about $300.00 and we were going to lose our shirts on the deal. So at the event Bob brought out some old collectible plastic to sell to try to offset his losses. He had this mint condition brown Aviar XD that somebody had agreed to buy, the guy just had to come back with the cash. As he was picking up the disc to set it aside, the flight plate FELL OUT of the disc. Just the whole flight plate in a perfect circle popped out and fell on the ground. So Bob is standing there with the rim in his hand, looking down at the flight plate on the ground. Finally he looked up as said "Lets see how it flies" and tosses the rim backhand. It flipped and rolled around in a big circle, and Bob grumbled something like "I waited 10 years to throw THAT?!?" Plastic is not meant to last forever.
That was ten years ago. I still have 10 or so discs with that tournament stamp. Time and the fact that I have a funny story to tell about it have lessened the pain I felt in my pocketbook on that deal.

good god, I hope that does not happen to any of my collector discs!

[Guy Fluharty]

Hello Mark,
Not sure if you remember me or not, but I have got my disc collection for sale...lots and lots of goodies. I do know there is a few rattlers in it. I have approximately 500 discs never thrown. Several San Marino things. Lots of special discs that I know you would be interested in being from Michigan...couple kandahar stamps i know of....if interested let me know

[Arthur Haverkamp]

I still have a sky streak.It is probably my first discgolf disc....I also still have an eagle without the patent number in it.Just the stamp on top.I also have still a lot of discs from discraft from the old days.Remember the Cruiser? Or the Shadow?
I have a yellow Phantom that looks like new 173.5 gramms lol
A nice Eclipse with that sun stamp.
But also alot of other stuff. Like the F-15 Eagle, The Coupe,The Superdrive + Putter, The Aero and the Phenix.
The Phenix was used by Sam Ferrans who sett a world record distance with it. He is probably the only player who have thrown that disc too. I got one but man, it is huge.

Bill Burns said:

The first disc that Discraft released with this "tough" plastic was the Skystreak, and I first saw it at the 1983 WDGC in Huntsville. Somebody took their disc outside the tourney HQ hotel, and we took turns throwing it as hard as we could against the brick wall of the hotel. I'm sure it might have damaged it a little, but compared to what any other disc would have done, I can't remember any damage to it at all! I believe that there was nylon added to the polymer blend of the disc and that is what made it so tough.

The Skystreak was non-beveled, and the closest disc it resembled at the time, as far as the profile, was the Midnight Flyer 71 Mold without the flight rings, but that is probably not much help to most of you out there.

BTW, I started collecting in 1979, but I have sold slmost all of my collection and am not actively collecting now, but I still now, and I used to do, occasionally go through my collection and remember where I got it, or the tournament it commemorates, or just other good times.