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1st place in AM 1=4th in Pro-$350, embarrassing?

DISCLAIMER: This does not pertain to me!

I'm not sure if I should feel bad for this person or be congratulatory toward him, but the hero of this story just won 1st place in AM1 in our annual b-teir tourney, by 8 stokes(with 2nd place shooting his #1+#2 P.B.'s in two of four rounds).

If he would have entered open, he would have placed 4th=$250 + a guaranteed spot in a 5 hole safari skins match @ $100/hole.

Is this a good example of how "sand-bagging" sometimes doesn't pay off in the long run? or Should we think that we all have the potential, as am's, to beat a field of pros on any given day?

Tags: sand bagging, sand-bag, sand-bagging, sandbag, sandbagging

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Skipper H / Ripdiscgolf.com on April 22, 2011 at 6:16pm

Nice, someone that can take it! Mab I grow up playing basket ball and those guys trash talk. So if ever I am called a bagger I just trash talk right back... In good spirits.

Permalink Reply by AK Discer on April 21, 2011 at 1:24pm

I moved up to open because I want to play with better players and get better. I don't care about the money so much as I'm paying to get schooled and learn lessons.

Permalink Reply by Bruce Brakel on April 21, 2011 at 6:54pm

"Is this a good example of how "sand-bagging" sometimes doesn't pay off in the long run?"

Given that first place in advanced was won by an Intermediate, second place was a Recreational, and there were only two Advanced players in the 24-player advanced division, no. Absolutely not. This is a classic case of the rec players all playing in the Advanced division in a backwater disc golf community having no idea how "not Advanced" they are.

If you only want to play in Utah, sure, go pro with a 930 rating when you are on the verge of 950 with the next update. Then when life transfers you to somewhere where Recs and Intermediates are not filling the bottom of the Open division, good luck competing in Open.

Looking at his stats, it looks like he is rapidly improving and on the verge of becoming a good amateur. But with ratings ranging from 900 to 1000 this year, he is not sandbagging in Advanced. He is defining Advanced.

The fact that there are only 9 advanced rated amateurs in his state does not make him a pro for becoming the 10th next month. It just makes Utah a lonely place to play disc golf.

Permalink Reply by Grassidy on April 22, 2011 at 2:00am

I don't think this has anything to do with the state of which you play disc golf in. and that is really creepy that you did so much research on this post. I never even mentioned the state the tourney was held in or the names or rating of any of the players of this anecdote, mainly to protect the innocent. This topic wasn't for you to dissect and analyze what our tournament scene is like, ITS THE ONLY TOURNEY WE HAVE TO PLAY IN, ALL YEAR! It was shared to ask your opinions on the abilities of Am golfers, not for you to trash the ability of every competitive disc golfer in the state of Utah. And, you are way off on everything you came up with!

Permalink Reply by AK Discer on April 22, 2011 at 10:59am

I thought it to be an insighful post honestly. This discussion type pops up A LOT on here and other related DG forums and most of them have been discussed this far into it.....sometimes further Lighten up a little, most of us are here to help and provide input not diminish things folks have posted or asked about.

Permalink Reply by Ryan Rios on April 22, 2011 at 7:37am

I don't get it.
If everyone plays their rating, how can anyone sandbag??
Everyone is allowed to shoot rounds above their rating, and if they continue to do so, their rating will bump up and so will they.
The only way that I see someone can sandbag is if they don't have a number and are constantly winning rec or novice, or if they are actually adding stokes to keep their rating lower.

Permalink Reply by Ryan Rios on April 22, 2011 at 7:41am

Also, even if he is 970 rated, no sport forces ams into pro, so why would dg?

Permalink Reply by David Sauls on April 22, 2011 at 8:18am

Sandbagging is a persistent myth. I've heard it spouted for as long as I can remember, and everytime I look into a case, the evidence isn't there.

Either that, or someone's using a whole different definition of sandbagging. Properly speaking, it's someone manipulating their entry (rating, being an unrated non-PDGA member, etc.) to play in a division below their skill level. It may happen somewhere, but I haven't seen it. If a player's playing in his correct division, that can't be sandbagging---even if he shoots way above his norm for that tournament. Nor do other players choosing to play above their skill level make him a bagger.

All of which is different from "bagger" chiding, an ongoing joke in disc golf. When I got my first win---in my 46th tournament---of course I heard cries of "bagger" in the audience. All in good fun.

Permalink Reply by steve sevonty on April 22, 2011 at 8:45am

Yes that was rather creppy how dude found out all that info, when it was not posted.

Permalink Reply by Bruce Brakel on April 25, 2011 at 6:37am

I clicked on his name and saw he was from Utah. I clicked on the Tour Schedule at PDGA.com and saw the recent tournament in Utah. That is so creepy, dude.

Permalink Reply by Mike Even on April 22, 2011 at 10:24am

There is always going to be haters, no matter what sport or anything you try to excel in really. My approach to disc golf is the same as stick golf.....I'm competing with myself and trying to beat my personal score. Don't get me wrong....Playing in tourneys and leagues is fun, actually it's a great time but I'm not too concerned about taking first place week in, week out. I push myself to shave strokes off of my score, especially in a Tourney. If I improve my score, I have had a great day. Who cares what other people think and what they say about sand-bagging. Going out and playing with the boys, doing some side bets, etc, etc is great fun, but that's what it is supposed to be...FUN. If this player wants to compete in the lower tier and smoke everyone because he really shouldn't be there, is only hurting himself. You only get better and excel if you surround yourself with better & excellent players and play them!

Permalink Reply by David Sauls on April 22, 2011 at 10:54am

"You only get better and excel if you surround yourself with better & excellent players and play them!"

How's anyone who stays in the same division ever get good enough to be called "bagger", if you only improve by moving up?

In a sport where no one plays defense, the value of moving up to improve your game is overrated. I'm sure it works to some degree....but over the years I've seen players stay in a division while improving remarkably. I've also seen players move up to Open, only to plateau at a certain skill level from which they no longer improved. I suspect a lot of other factors matter a lot more than who you compete against in tournaments.