Amateur Cash Payout

Why doesn't thePDGA allow amateurs to receive cash Payout instead of a voucher or a stack of Plastic? I've heard that the Amateur's are just that and only the "professionals" are allowed to win cash. WHY?

[Tino "SilverBack" Medina]

plain and simple, you want cash, go pro, or side bet, or am "hot rounds". Or cash CTP's for am only. I play advanced in our local events and when I win some plastic, I give it to the am's who didn't place or are coming up in the sport. It's how you encourage the sport to grow. Or donate them to a CTP in your name. Remember, this is a sport, a hobby of ours. None of us make our living doing it! Its for the fun and love of the game!! Do you not play casual because there is no "reward"??? Think about it!

[4U2NV]

Chuck Kennedy said:

What other sports do amateurs receive cash? The fact amateurs receive large merch prizes in our sport is uncommon in most sports where ams primarily just win trophies or certificates.

Amateur Bass Fisherman paid in Cash not just tropheys/lures/rods
If you consider Minor league baseball/hockey etc. Ams - Players are paid cash although they are not good enough to make it to the NHL, MLB, NBA etc.

So Yes there are plently of other sports where there are cash payouts/paid to play.

However, If you have enough plastic already and cash and want money, buy the stuff that is limited such as a flx drone and resell it for cash.

Maybe if you get enough plastic you can start running your own tournaments and run it the way you want to either sanctioned or unsanctioned depending on how you want to do payouts.

I am an Am and as much as I would love to play for cash I can do that in a local league. I think that it is a great idea to payout Ams in cash but there are also so many problems with doing that at this time such as.

1) ratings not updated constantly rather just every few months
2) not enough support for TDs from the PDGA if the event is sanctioned
3) unranked non-members what division do they play in their first tournament? Novice or Pro?
4) How far down do you pay top 10%, 15%, 20% 50%?

These are just scratching the tip of the iceburg. However, benefits.

1) more accountability between players (Hell if I am playing for cash I am going to be watching for those foot faults even in Novice).
2) more people playing tournaments, more competition, more people wanting to watch because of competition.

[ROBEY the one.]

well then i retract. i thought you did, it was late when i was reading this thread and i was half distracted playing poker.

Lotto said:

da "kingpin", yes you did miss something....i didnt start this thread.

[Tino "SilverBack" Medina]

whoa, comparing minor league or major league baseball to discgolf???, When they win, they get a trophy or a ring or a pennant, not cash. There are no payouts for them. They are paid to play but not paid for winning. And bass fisherman, not really a sport but more of a hobby. Lets not include that one.

[4U2NV]

Fishing is a sport as much as disc golf, it is physically and mentally demanding, skill is involved as far as to what baits to use, where to fish, and how to fish the lure at what time of day. Like a disc getting a good kick off a tree there is the luck that a bigger fish will bite.

Minor league players do get payed to win it is called bonuses!

Lets call disc golf and ball golf more a competitive athletic activity not a sport if we are not including fishing.

Kevin VanDamn Bassfishing Pro was voted sportsman of the year a few years ago. I have yet to see a disc golfer (Including the CHAMP) considered for this honor.

Needless to say in other sports ams get paid.

Tino "SilverBack" Medina said:

whoa, comparing minor league or major league baseball to discgolf???, When they win, they get a trophy or a ring or a pennant, not cash. There are no payouts for them. They are paid to play but not paid for winning. And bass fisherman, not really a sport but more of a hobby. Lets not include that one.

[Kris Orrick]

I dont know, I think I would rather play Amature if they got cash. In fact I still wish I played ams I would have an 18 hole course and a ton of discs. Then I would Run a killer non santioned event and keep all the money. Mark great Idea Gold, Platnum etc.. divisions, that way a player could earn their way to higher levels, It would also be cool to have that gold and platnum membership touring card. For example If you were a gold or platnum card holder you Automatically have a spot held in any tournament. Meaning that you can bump people out who havent paid their pdga dues rather than them bumping you out. As far as ams playing for cash come to my home course or I'll come to your home course and we can play for cash, but on a national stantpoint be happy with the discs, baskets, prizes, because People are really good out there you dont want to be donating.
Fishing amatures gets paid in cash? No way! Whos got a boat and a pole I'm in? I guess that is the only way they could payout. I'm sure fishermen would get sick of getting a new rod and fishing lures. Not to mention if the fishing TD's paid other prizes like Trucks, boats, etc. that would be pretty expensive, so I could see them getting paid cash.
P.S. I really think this compliments my arguement on the "How much do pro players make" thread. If there was better structure (with sponsors and clubs working together) then there would be a seperation among tournaments and divisions. Then you could have sort of like a nationwide tour in golf where top level ams could earn cash and points but the main goal would to be on the PGA and play against Tiger and all of the other studs. (I know this all sounds great the only problem sponsors)

[ROBEY the one.]

refering to the earilier comment i made on this thread

the current system doesn't work. the pros getting paid all the extra cash isn't doing anything for the sport, and this is just an idea for a change i think might work/help. don't you think i make a lot of valid points? the pros take the money leave town and don't put any back into the local vendors/clubs that promote the sport locally. that money is never linked to the the sport to catch they eyes of potential bigger non disc golf related sponsors, by saying hey we have money and are willing to spend it on people who support us and others in our sport. just like local sponsors who are patronized by the golfers who play in the events that they sponsor, but are never made aware of of it. then the refuse to continue to sponsor events because of lack return on investment. that leaves only disc related companies sponsoring tourneys and fighting over the few bucks AMs are left with to spend on merchandise, and plastic.

the system is very flawed and doomed to drive AMs away if they don't feel compensated for the entry fees, leaving PROs only playing for the PROs money in the long run anyway. or playing for sponsor money from the big names like innova, discraft and gateway, which will soon learn they they r getting nothing back from their investment because the are giving PROs free product and added cash to advertise to a hand full of AMs that aren't left with much to spend after playing the tourney on more plastic.

i don't think pros shouldn't get paid, but i also don't think AMs should be the ones doing it. my suggestions were just one way i thought of to try and make everybody happy and bring in more non-discgolf related sponsorship, while making every body get adequate compensation for their investment based on performance vs. their peers of of equal or close to equal skill level.

i have heard countless AMs say they would play more tourneys if the entry wasn't so high that they felt violated after not placing in a event.

I know my idea isn't flawless but it it is a different way of going about it and a good starting point, for at the very least a dialouge that can bring about changes to benefit all involved in the sport, not just top 10% of the pro pool.
William Gilbert said:

kingpin with your comments i do not think you are properly trained in payouts or dont see the big picture.
Yes it is the Professional PDGA. I am not a PRO so i understand what you are saying!!
I imagine these comments seem in conflict, but i wouldn't want to seem to be bashing the PDGA! LOL!

[ROBEY the one.]

very few times is half the field getting close to their money back in merch in the am pools. sometimes the they don't even award anything too int ams except for the winners trophy or equivalent. from what I've seen. maybe your a better TD than most, but I'm just tying to think outside the box to help the sport. because right now there are a ton of new players everyday but that will never turn this sport mainstream, with actual interest from outsiders, without changes in the current structure or governing body ( which is what they PDGA is not a association for professionals! otherwise why would they have am divisions?).

Mark Stephens said:

First, let me point out that I suck. I would like to think that my TD rating is much higher than my 862 player rating. So, this is coming from an "AM" player.

If you think that the AMs are getting the short end of the stick I think that you are SORELY wrong. AMs get it pretty good. 50% of the field usually walks away with close to what they paid to get into the tournament in retail. That is pretty great since it is a sporting competition & not a "5th grade make everyone feel warm & fuzzy on the inside" event. If a club or TD chooses to take the profit from the mark up on the discs and add it to the pro purse that is their choice. Another valid choice is to throw it in the club coffers. Nowhere is it written that it must be given back to the Am players. Why are they more deserving than the open players? They are not! Everyone is equal in my mind. Whatever the club chooses to do with ITS money, it can and should. It is not for anyone else to decide what the club has done with its profits because that is what they are. If the club is inclined to add it to the pro purse, baskets, huge club party, etc so be it. The money is theirs, they earned it.

[THE J.P.]

After winning several adv am events in 1990, I was told I should go pro. I did and went on tour without a sponcer. I never placed in the money. I donated alot of my own savings over the 5 yrs I toured to this sport. I got tourney ace money but was always at least 1 spot out of the payout. This was frustrating me. I stopped touring ,got injured,and now am an adv master. It all comes down to -----If you want cash....GO PRO. You may not win, but u learn alot from the diff pros u compete against. If u dont want cash play am......pure and simple.

[Chuck Kennedy]

The PDGA had a member vote several years back about changing the name from Professional Disc Golf Association to Players Disc Golf Association to better reflect the mix of members which is now about 75% Amateur and likely moving toward 80%. Even though more voters were amateurs, they still chose to retain the professional sounding name of the org as Professional Disc Golf Association.

[Atrain]

Ams can't have cash because they would leave with it, just like the pros do. Money is made on them being required to spend the money there. The tournament is selling you an opportunity to win a gift certificate. If ams don't get merch, no money is made.

Also, I don't understand why some have animosity towards the PDGA. They do a hell of a lot for the sport. You don't have to be a member to play in tourneys. If you don't want to join, don't. You can't legitimize a sport without a governing agency.

To those against PDGA, I invite you to the thread I am about to create Are you a PDGhAter? WHY?

[Atrain]

Yeah, I think I'll quit my job, too. This collar thingy is really starting to annoy me and it looks awful.

Mark Stephens said:

They are going to tell you that you have to wear shirt with a collar to a NT or Major as a reason why. Plus, all of those rules of play. THE HORROR!!!