The Community of Disc Golfers and About All Things Disc Golf
Let me preface this thread by saying that in general I don't get easily annoyed. I am 52 years old and have been discing on a regular basis for the past 17 years. I have played tournaments both as an advanced amateur and as a pro. In other words, you might call me somewhat of a seasoned veteran. I have never taken money or prizes in tournament play but I have had some decent rounds and I do win from time to time in the local doubles leagues. I have not played tournaments in the past few years but if I did I would be competing in the Grand Masters category.
That being said, here are two particular things that do annoy me and I wish that people would not do.
1) Please don't show up for random draw doubles and then complain when you get a certain partner. It is random draw doubles. There is the possibility of having to play with anyone from the best player down to the absolute worst player. I am neither. That is the nature of the beast. About two weeks ago I got paired up with one guy who when he sees that we will be partners puts out a huge sigh of disgust. Let me just say that does not bode well with me because when I show up I will always put out my best effort and my goal is to come in first. But as soon as I see that my partner is going to whine and complain it makes it that much harder to just play disc golf. Now there is this other element of expectation that just gets in the way. I say that you expect nothing but that you earn everything. If you think that you will win or lose before you even throw a disc then there is something wrong. Show up, do your best and let that be that.
I did play about a month ago with a guy who had previously complained when paired up with me but didn't do so on that occasion. We played decent but it was windy and we missed a few putts. We still managed to take the win because the conditions were difficult for everyone and we just stayed focused. If you watch ball golf at all you will realize that the best strategy is that of not giving up. You always fight till the end. I was really proud of this guy because on this occasion he showed that he could fight for the win.
2) Please don't give unwanted advice, especially to another player who has been around. I went out to play a casual round a couple of days ago with another local player. I wasn't really on my game that day. It happens. You have your good days and you have your bad days. I was missing putts and this guy just went on and on about his thoughts that I needed to putt with a different disc. Now I have putted with that particular disc on hundreds of occasions and generally I will bash the chains with it. Also, my mistakes were something that I understood, like not throwing the putt hard enough or simply not following through. Those are mental errors. But he kept going on and on and it was really just an annoyance. The very next day I went out and played with a younger guy who has game and a go for it attitude (he is also a much better player than the guy I played with the day before). We enjoyed ourselves, there was none of the unwanted advice and I made a lot less mistakes. I still made a few errors but overall I could tell how much better I was playing. I may have even showed him a few things.
So to anyone that I might play with I say this. I enjoy disc golf. If it becomes an activity that is more like work I will probably quit playing. I have no dreams of becoming the next world champion. It is what it is. Now can we just go out and enjoy ourselves and go for a few ace runs? Let us go out and enjoy the sport of disc golf and give each other a few high fives along the way.
Works for me.
Good luck with the drunk and stoned sometimes......
I am one of those annoying people that won't take credit for a lucky shot,if the disc did not go as I intended but was still good I will attribute that to luck and not skill on my part.Though I will take luck when I can get it....I get alot of lucky shots
Unbelievably I got paired up once again with this same guy today. Unbelievable in the sense that we have gotten paired up probably three times in the past month and a half. There is no way that we should get paired up this much based on the laws of probability. I was actually thinking that there was no way that we would get paired up today since there were 20 people for league so the probability of getting any one player as a partner was just over 5%.
Anyway, the day actually went quite well and he refrained from giving advice. We didn't play great but we did contend for a while. The other two guys in our foursome actually won as they stretched their lead on us from one stroke to five. But we shot 6 under which was probably our best showing as a team. So today I didn't let him get to me and I just played my game. We didn't come out with any money but we had a decent round. And more importantly he kept playing the entire round.
Now, if we get paired up next week there is something going on with the disc golf gods...
I don't want to ruffle feathers too much but there is another side to this. Keep in mind, I too am an old guy that doesn't throw a mile, has a very solid short game which works well for doubles. That said, doubles for cash is very different than a completely casual round. What one person might call advice is what another person would call strategy. The old...I'm going to run it so you lay up this hole....kinda thing. Nothing wrong with that. It very well might have nothing to do with abilities, he might just not like playing with you, nothing wrong with that either. I have moved divisions in tournaments just to avoid playing with certain people and that could be the case here too. We all have our own personalities and if he happened to sigh out loud is it such a big deal? If I know I am a donator because I got stuck with the worst player in the field it can still be a fun round if I like them, and for $5, who really cares? But if I am a donator and I know I have to play with a guy who drives me insane, I may let a sigh out without meaning to. Not any different than complaining about him here, right?
Everyone wants to win. Why play if not to win.
The fact is you get different dubs partners all the time.
There are a few that I'd rather not be partnered with, oh well.
That's random draw. It's a chance you take.
Do your best that day and work as a team (maybe the US government should read this post!).
There is no "You lay up" when you play with me because if both people aren't going for it on each and every hole in doubles you just won't win. And I have also won in doubles when we got a bogey. I'm not saying that you should accept bogeys as being OK, but you can win after getting one. If someone is going to try to get me to "lay up" or play conservatively in doubles then there will be a problem since I have never won by using that strategy. There are just too many good players making good shots hole after hole for that to ever work. The other day the winning score was 14 down. Last Sunday it was 11 down (with a few longer holes). In doubles I have only one rule and that is go for it. If you don't use that strategy you will be wishing that you had because you will be out of the money.
League doubles is still pretty casual as the winning payout is generally around thirty bucks per person (on a good day). It might be a different thing in a tournament but in that case you would have brought your own partner anyway.
Random draw means exactly that, you don't get to choose your partner so you had better be able to play with almost anyone. Sure there are some who I would rather get paired up with, but I don't make a big deal out of playing with absolutely anyone. It is called sportsmanship and respect.
Finally, too much advice or someone trying to get me to play in a way that I generally don't play has never worked for me. It just gets in the way. I have played several hundred rounds of doubles and I know what to do. I am not a beginner.
Now, if there is anyone out there that wins random draw doubles every time they go out and never makes a mistake I would like to meet them. No such person exists.
I think I understand the issue now Jim. There is strategy in doubles. If the pin is on the side of a hill and you're 75 out, one can run it but one needs to lay up for the par. Do you notice partners shaking their heads a lot when your putts go screaming past the basket after your opponents got a par? Of course aggression is good in doubles, but so is strategy, you can't always go for every shot. The best doubles teams know who does which part best...who should take the crazy line off the tee that once every ten tries makes it to an otherwise unreachable pin, as long as the partner knows to make sure he has a drive safely placed in the fairway. They know who can run putts from 60-70...as long as somebody makes sure they at worst get a par. Even at Cottonwood its going to be tough to get anywhere near 14 down with bogeys. If you are up against some really good players who can go bogey free -14 and no matter how well you play you can't...you tip your cap and say congrats. But that still doesn't make it logical to be running 100 foot putts and getting bogey after bogey, does it?
As for your partners, when you told us you yelled back at him that you were glad you didn't get him for a partner too, right back at ya? Is that any better than what he did? The goal in doubles is to work together, right? You keep saying you are going to do it your way, no matter what. Working together just seems to get in the way for you is how you worded it. I'm afraid this is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. Just my .02
I rarely have issues with any of my doubles partners and I think that you are reading way too much into it. The situation that you describe where both people go "screaming past a basket" rarely if ever happens. If that were the case then I could understand nobody wanting to play with me as a partner. But as I stated previously, I have won multiple times in doubles so that is not an issue. In the case that I described it is pretty much the case that this guy just believes that he is better than me and therefore doesn't have to listen to anything that I say. In fact yelling back at him seems to have worked because he treated me with a lot more respect last Sunday.
In fact most times when it comes to the case of us being 75 feet out, I am the one who puts the disc closer to the basket. But for me, there is no reason that I shouldn't be thinking about making the shot when I step up to the basket. The "play it safe" strategy has never worked for anyone if they want to win at doubles. What it does is just make you play safer and come in third or even fourth. Doubles is the one time when you get a green light to go for it because good scores win and other scores don't. Play it safe to me means that you don't have faith in your abilities. After all, you only put $5 in anyway so why not take a shot at winning and have some fun!
I'm not sure what world you live in where you get bogey after bogey because that never happens to me. Obviously it is much easier to play when you get a partner that has a similar approach to things (no pun intended) and you have good chemistry with them. But that does not always happen and this thread is about what people do when they get a partner that maybe you have not won with before. I have won with two different partners who have exhibited a bit of attitude towards me but then later we threw a winning round. It really just comes down to them allowing me to play my game. And I believe that just maybe this guy and I could win in the future. BTW, he and I could have probably gotten to 9 or 10 down if we both had made a few more putts.You can't blame your doubles partner for you missing putts.
So , here is what you need to do. Try to find out your players abilities. Is he good at making Putts , Upshots or Drives ?
Is he a Pro or Novice player ?
Are you the better doubles player ?
If So , encourage him/her to play their best. If they are not as good as you are , find out their strengths
Always let the less talented player Drive and Putt First. This will take the pressure off of them and they can go for it.
If they can not make a Putt , have them lay up next to the Basket and now you can go for it !!
It's always best to encourage the other partner, regardless of skill level.
A newby will put themselves down and most likely not want to play again.
The best aspect is help them and say you can do it.
Keep at it......
My partner today sucked!..Of course I was playing wildman. :)
I don't really like setting up any "strategy" for random draw doubles. When I get paired up with a novice I merely tell them that my only rule is "go for it, don't come up short, it's doubles". And then I give them encouragement. But that type of thing doesn't happen very often since most of our league players have been playing for a while already.
I don't really care for the "one person lays up" strategy. If someone asks me to lay up I will say that I am going to try to make it. I have enough experience that "going for it" doesn't really mean that if I miss the disc is going to be 50 foot past. If you know what you are doing then even if you miss the putt the disc will still be by the basket. That is because I use the "speed and distance" method. Laying up will not serve you well as a team because that almost becomes not trying. If you know that you can make a putt and just lay up you are giving strokes away. Doubles affords you two chances at making it into the basket. If you throw away one of those chances because you have to play it safe or lay up you are giving away strokes to the competition.
BTW, the guy that I was talking about as complaining when he gets me as a partner is also one of the three guys who was complaining about the basket position the other day (my other thread). He also complains that the baskets get moved at all. He complains a lot.
Finally, I play best and have won the most when our team has no strategy, that is we just play things by ear. When I have to worry about some strategy that someone else is trying to enforce (you putt first, you lay up, you drive first on even holes, etc.) it just takes away from the actual playing and in general I don't play as well. Generally the only thing that I will suggest is that the person whose shot we take gets to choose whether to go first or second. If it is my mark then I will always go first.