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Sorry but always hated the PDGA!
This is more reinforcement.
I know there will be some of you that will not like this, but sorry.
This is almost like saying that "REAL" Pro Sports don't have issues.
We are not perfect MR GRAHAM!
http://teamgrunt.blogspot.com/

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Moe, keep your hate-mongering to yourself man. You got a beef with the PDGA, do something constructive about it instead of whingeing about them. What does "We are not perfect MR GRAHAM" mean? I dont see how a professionally-designed ripoff of the PDGA logo like this could be an accident or an error of any kind, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

Do you really think it's easy to run a WORLDWIDE sporting association? It's hard enough co-ordinating a local club let alone what the PDGA has to organise, and when stupid things like this crop up, it means that they have to divert valuable resources away from other more constructive activities to protect their professional reputation (you probably don't agree, you obviously have a problem with the PDGA and this is another way you can publicise it).

Whether or not you believe that certain drugs need to be legalised, the current situation is that they are illegal, and the PDGA is fighting hard to disassociate our sport from these activities. And this "artist" concept is crap, artists still have to follow all the same rules the rest of the community follows (including intellectual property rights), why should they be any different?

As for the logo itself, everyone can see the clear similarities between the PDGA logo and this parody, so if the PDGA requests that the image be removed from public access, I think thats a fair and reasonable request, and the "artist" should just remove the image in question from the website it has been posted on ( It looks like the PDGA attempted to discreetly contact a person involved with the website instead of making a big deal of this). Give it up dude, you've been sprung doing the wrong thing, be a man, own up to it and take the logo off the website, or is that too ego-damaging? Or you could just call the PDGA out in the public domain and get shot down by a LOT of other disc golfers. Your choice.
It is good to have differences of opinion with any organization.
But in this case the answer is obvious.
In the "big picture" this really shouldnt matter anyways.
it's not that big of a deal moe, save your fight for your principals for something that will actually mean something, like getting involved with NORML .
Constructive criticism will assist the PDGA by providing objective feedback. Saying that the PDGA's fee structure is extortionist is not constructive. I'll be sure to remind the PDGA sheriff of this when he/she flies to Australia, puts a gun to my head and forces me to pay my fees next year (I'm already paid up this year, the PDGA enforcers are mighty scary!).

I would really like to know the "many people" in disc golf that enjoy this particular form of "taste" (illicit drug use). I don't think these people form as big a group as some would have us believe, and for some reason some members of our community seem to have a vested interest that disc golf retain this link to an ILLEGAL activity, and illicit drug use is certainly something we should not encourage in the younger generation of disc golfers which are the future of the sport. Disc golf is a sport like any other and should have a strictly enforced doping/drug policy, including testing for professional athletes (Professional means that they gain financial benefit to play the sport, and with that benefit comes the expectation that they help enhance the reputation and profile of the sport by being good ambassadors to the general public. Illicit drug-taking is inconsistent with this expectation).

Blatantly ripping off another entity's intellectual property is not only illegal in most if not all countries, but i also agree with Alternatour in that in this case it is in extremely poor taste.

If you want to criticise the PDGA, go for it but ground your criticism with some thought-out justifications and expect some heat from people who believe the PDGA is doing the best they can for our sport.

The "drugs are ok in our sport" crap is even more tiring.
Note from Terry

It is very nice to hear very strong and differing opinions expressed without name calling or making up facts, without too many inflammatory (if any) generalizations. (I would prefer a less hostile subject line for the thread, but that's the author's prerogative, within limits. [I, personally, find "hate" to be an emotion that I only very rarely experience, and never for very long.] And I appreciate, as I mentioned before, that the thread author did not directly post the image on here, which might lead to a dilemma for me I'd rather not face.)

I don't mind at all that people disagree with me on this and related issues. I'm very proud of the overall tenor of the discussion. Let's keep it strong, passionate, and among friends, please!

P.S. I love the PDGA :)
Hating takes a lot of energy and i'm kinda lazy. besides that all i have to say is Tino is Hi-larious!!! ha ha! smoking pole hole!! hopefully there isn't one of those @ the next Oregon Liquid Environment Series (plug) @ Adair, cause there are many things in my bag and vaseline is not one of them.

Tino "SilverBack" Medina said:
Sorry for this Terry (if you see it) As an artist myself, it makes sense. Because of your logo, people can now associate "the smoke holes", pot and illegal activities with the PDGA logo. I am not saying there is anything wrong with smoke holes or the activity, but you are linking it to the pdga. What if I took your logo, changed the art a little and had a gay man performing sexual acts on another gay man and called it the "smokeing "pole" hole". Then some man walks up to you and says, "hey your cute, I want to join your club", would you be offended???? well, it is the same thing. A logog is for people to associate what they see with the design and colors. There is so many more ways to do this art and it only takes a little creativity, but instead you are downing the people that help promote and make this sport. Nice, real nice.
I am not a lawyer, but am I as far as my children are concerned...

I am no way condoning the subject matter on the pic, but, after looking at the referenced pic, I would think that if the phrase "PDGA" was removed, there would be no infringement, but may be viewed at satire. But because the colors are the same, and a silhouetted person and a pole hole are shown in both logos, I reserve the right to be wrong.

This just shows how much I am out of it. When I saw the manufactured logo, the silhouette looked like a lady with a knee-length skirt, carrying a purse, applying lipstick, and I though that "bowl hole" meant that, on this hole, where was a designated place where a lady could "freshen up" or use the facilities, hence, bowl.

Boy, was I wrong!!!
You stole thier design what's to hate!!!! You put PDGA approved on your logo they have a right to say no this is not PDGA approved.
Moe,

In your haste to pass judgement, is it possible that you now feel that being passed on you by your peers. To this, my question is simply, how does that make you feel?

While I don't agree with everything the PDGA says or does, I certainly don't hate them nor do I love them (sorry Terry), but I do thank them for pushing our sport along and helping it grow. I also don't really believe you hate them, maybe just some of the those things.

Your hate is a transgression, and maybe you should spend your ten minutes a day to resolve it.
Just a thought.
Something else just dawned on me about possible litagation. Forget for a moent the possible copyright infringement, while I believe what most on here do, they are within their rights. What about the possibility of "Defamation of Character".
While I'm not an attorney, my exwife worked in that field for years and that should be more than enough cause for concern in itself.

Just ask yourself Moe, is it worth it, is the fight even worth it. Maybe the hate you feel is because deep down you know they're right and you're wrong and you unable to admit you've wronged another.

Possibilty???
I sure raised some eyebrows huh'?
It was about the way it was handled.
I will remove the image as I was going to anyways.
I just think more effort could be used in other area's.
thanks for the good read!
It really has been a good read, Moe. I really appreciate the way these discussions take place as opposed to the nastiness and occasional moronity (yes I make up words) on the other discussion boards.

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