The Community of Disc Golfers and About All Things Disc Golf
So we had league doubles this past Sunday. I got paired with a real beginner but that is OK. It's random draw so you get who you get. We both did our best but came up short. I tried to pass on a few tips to the guy and if I see him again I will probably try to help him with his game. Nice kid.
Now the other pair in our foursome was a different story. One of the guys is pretty good but is half crazy and conceited. He thinks that he is some great player but when he doesn't get paired up with a great player he flounders. He doesn't have the mental toughness that it takes to be a great player.
Anyway, after the round he starts going off about how we should handicap doubles with A players and B players. I say no, it is random draw so you get who you get. If you get a lesser player you need to step up your game and you should at least be able to play as well as you play as a single.
Do we need a "diaper league" where we baby people and spoon feed them? Do we cater to those people who think that they should win without trying? I say no. Competition brings out good players. That is what league is about. Go out, play your best and if it's good enough you will win. If I were to win because I got strokes that would not be a win. I wouldn't deserve it. Enough of this "everyone needs to feel good" BS. If you want to compete then come out and compete. If you want to complain please stay home.
I am beginning to not enjoy doubles anymore because of stuff like this. People complaining that they didn't win because they didn't get the right partner or strokes. Enough already. We are playing singles tonight so it is just me and my game. If I make a bad shot I will own it. If I make a great shot I will own it. None of this BS to worry about. And if there are enough people who want it we will do a B pool. However, three wins in B pool you have to move up to A pool.
I found Its hard to make everyone happy when playing in a competition. I just started last year and really like playing but I do it for something to do and exercise,I dont have dreams of making a career out of this,Judging from some of the attitudes I think some people do. But for the most part everyone was pretty easy going and pleasant to play with.
Now I played on both types of leagues one handicap and one doubles league where they break people down into A and B players. I had just picked up a set of discs and joined the league and never played,so needless to say I had a pretty large handicap and by the time my handicap was established I learned a few tips that really took some strokes of my game,So I won like 5 strait weeks because my handicap was so large. Im sure the other that had been playing and already had their true handicap didnt enjoy that,but as that time went on It got lowered into my true handicap and now the scores at the end are all very close and its anyone's game.
Now im sure some people say I didnt really deserve to win seeing how I just have free strokes taken off at the end,True I guess. But thats the type of league it is,You know that going in!
I like the handicap league and Do not care for the doubles,talk about not deserving a win! Im a pretty sucky player with a maximum throwing distance of 250' on my Best day,so when Im paired up with a good player we use 9 out of 10 throws of the the better player and I contribute basically nothing. I think I would feel more useful if I would just carry the better players bag. So if I would win the money that is really undeserved,but then again thats how they run the league. "Which I dont play anymore" I would like it if they playes what we called Scotch Doubles in a Billiard league,where you alternate shots and not just take the better of the two. So if he drives it far,I would throw from there and if I throw it in the bushes,Well that is where the next player throws from and it just continues back and forth. That would even out the game I think,lol might piss off some good players but it would be a true team game.
But in any case or type of league a liar,cheater,sandbagger etc. can ruin it for everyone. So this is just me as a newb point of view on leagues. If you dont like the handicap dont play in it,or have a fear of getting stuck with a crappy players dont play doubles and if your that great find a league or maybe start one up where you just play strait with no partners or handicaps,But im guessing that would be hard to gather up a good group of people.
Just play your best,have fun and leave the attitudes at home!
I Enjoy helping players get Better !!! You have to be willing to learn though and develop confidence in yourself.
You can always play for fun , but don't play any sanctioned events where you are playing with someone else's money , besides your own. This is where your playing partner does not want to lose his/her money on purpose.
Here in San Diego , we have different divisions you can play in.
Our Wednesday Night Doubles , is usually for players , who can shoot atleast 7 under par by themselves and are Teamed up with Pro players who usually shoot 12 under par or better.
Our Friday night doubles is for everyone else. You will get strokes , depending on your average score.
Some Guys are Teamed up with their girlfriends , while others are teamed up with novice players who just started playing.
Everyone knows this going into it.
Friday night Doubles are designed this way.
Alot more relaxed than Wednesday night doubles , where players are more serious about their Scores and Winning.
This is why we have different levels of Competition.
Some just don't care for Competition and just want to play for fun and Relaxation. That's OK.
If they so Choose to play in any type of competition :
I recommend that these type of players should start off by playing singles and maybe play in a few monthly's , establish a handicap of some kind , know their playing ability , before entering into or playing Doubles for Money !
Brian, I would have no problem getting you as a partner. I enjoy the sport and enjoy competing. In a random draw situation I am just as likely to get paired up with the top player as the worst player. Once again everyone knows that going in. If I see that my partner is struggling or is making some mistakes I will try to help him out with some good basic knowledge and advice. I have seen players improve immediately after a few tips. That doesn't bother me. And if you are playing doubles the worst you should do is what you would normally do playing singles so good players need to be used to that and not blame things on "not getting the right partner".
I would recommend that you go out and get tips form others as to what you can do better. Everyone needs somebody to show them a few things when they start out. But novice players don't generally stay that way for long. Around here the next year you will begin to see those same players starting to win because they have learned. And doubles is a good way to learn. So don't be afraid.
Non-handicapped doubles will let the good players rise to the top. Also the good players will win regardless of the partner that they get.
Singles don't need to be handicapped either if you establish an A pool and a B pool. If a player wins three times in B pool they move up. That way there is all of the reason for novice players to show up and compete against players of their own caliber. I always offer both pools but sometimes we just don't have that many novice players show up so we only have an A pool. If there is only one or two novice players we may offer up a few strokes for them to play A pool. That just hasn't happened all that much lately.
So idiot boy shows up tonight for singles league and starts taking money from some people. The problem is he doesn't run the Monday singles league, I do. I basically had to tell him that he was not running league at which point he still tried to do it. Caused a whole lot of trouble for everyone.
Are we the only place in the country that has crazy people like this? This guy has also been caught chopping down trees with an ax and most recently told a city worker with a loader to drive it into the area that we call "the swamp". It is a wet area off of hole #17 with a natural spring. Needless to say the loader got stuck, ripped up a few trees and some grass and left huge ruts in the ground. I called up the city and told them to never talk with this guy as he does not represent us and had no authority to tell anyone to go into that area.
Apologies for going off topic just a bit but this shows what a nutjob this guy is.
The guy chops down trees to clear the course?! I'm guessing he told the city worker to drive the loader in to clear the course as well?! What a loser. I'm guessing he's the kind of guy who you have to keep score for while playing singles, because he doesn't like to count penalty strokes, or occasionally "gives" himself putts right after he misses a putt saying "that would have gone in if I was trying..." Sounds to me like he's the kinda guy you want to ask to NOT come to league anymore, and if somebody has the authority, tell him not to play your course because he's damaging it, trying to make it easier to play.
He's not really a cheater. Just crazy and he wants to do things that he shouldn't do. I have been telling the club president to reign him in for a while now.
He was lying and saying, "We took a vote" and crap like that as to why he should run things. Complete fantasy just like the pond he wanted to put in over at the swamp area. I can't make this stuff up.
The saying goes like this, "If it aint broke, don't fix it." He is definitely trying to break some things so he can be the one to fix them. Pretty soon he will have to fix my foot up his as$.
We used to do a sunday doubles at Avon town hall park and the TD would split it into A and B players 1 A player 1 B player per team, I always thought it was kind of funny because he would always put me in the B pool and whoever I'd draw as an A player we would win. Sadly he has moved away and the new TD knows I'm not a B player, have not won since...
And this is the problem with trying to rig the outcome. Situations where someone who really isn't a B pooler gets in with an A pooler and wins all of the time. The same goes for giving strokes to novices. They get paired up with the best player out there who then also has strokes and rolls over everyone without trying.
In regular random draw doubles, you gets what you gets. Same thing applies to everyone.
I just had a conversation with the guy who used to run the Wednesday night league which alternates between singles and doubles.
We talked about what if we did doubles where people were assigned to either A pool or B pool. First off, someone has to make that determination so you then have someone judging others on their ability. How accurate can that be? Also if you are giving to one then you are taking away from another. It all just adds complexity to running a doubles league and will never be perfect. And what is perfect, that each week someone else wins so that everyone is happy? To me, it just seems like trying to "rig the system" ahead of time.
In a regular random draw system you pay your money and you take your chances with who you get paired up with. No added complexity. You show up, pay in and play. Ace pool is also there as an incentive because anyone can drill an ace and take some cash (sometimes way more than what you get for winning). Much easier to run as well. We have been doing it that way for the past ten years and it has always worked well and we get a decent turnout. But someone always thinks that there is a better way...
My predictions are that if we do decide to go the way of "weighted doubles" it will be less popular and fewer people will show up to play. People like to complain but in the end they also like to compete and win when they play well. No formulas to rely on, only skill.