The Community of Disc Golfers and About All Things Disc Golf
So we had league doubles this past Sunday. I got paired with a real beginner but that is OK. It's random draw so you get who you get. We both did our best but came up short. I tried to pass on a few tips to the guy and if I see him again I will probably try to help him with his game. Nice kid.
Now the other pair in our foursome was a different story. One of the guys is pretty good but is half crazy and conceited. He thinks that he is some great player but when he doesn't get paired up with a great player he flounders. He doesn't have the mental toughness that it takes to be a great player.
Anyway, after the round he starts going off about how we should handicap doubles with A players and B players. I say no, it is random draw so you get who you get. If you get a lesser player you need to step up your game and you should at least be able to play as well as you play as a single.
Do we need a "diaper league" where we baby people and spoon feed them? Do we cater to those people who think that they should win without trying? I say no. Competition brings out good players. That is what league is about. Go out, play your best and if it's good enough you will win. If I were to win because I got strokes that would not be a win. I wouldn't deserve it. Enough of this "everyone needs to feel good" BS. If you want to compete then come out and compete. If you want to complain please stay home.
I am beginning to not enjoy doubles anymore because of stuff like this. People complaining that they didn't win because they didn't get the right partner or strokes. Enough already. We are playing singles tonight so it is just me and my game. If I make a bad shot I will own it. If I make a great shot I will own it. None of this BS to worry about. And if there are enough people who want it we will do a B pool. However, three wins in B pool you have to move up to A pool.
I shot 2 up tonight in singles. Missed a few easy putts. Came in sixth out of twelve people. Could have played better but I owned all of my shots. Next time I'm going lower.
Thursday night is doubles. Hoping to do well but I really don't care if I win or not or who I will get as a partner. I am competitive and will do my best to win but if I don't there will be no whining. As someone in my foursome said tonight, "Who gets upset about disc golf?" I agree 100% with that statement. Go out and chuck some discs.
I think this was more of a rant then a question but there is nothing else on this site to chime in on lol...
"Diaper Leagues" are good when you have a good mix of both good and rec players who show up all the time. It allows most teams to have a good chance at winning. However most places I have played league don't have a good mix. Often a couple really good guys, some decent, and some rec. This become an issue because the top player(s) can come in and win every week because 2 decent players will never be able to team up and challenge. If You got a league where it would work well then it's all good, otherwise stick to random draw.
I guess that the point is if you can just show up and win without trying because of some handicap system then what is the point? Good play should be rewarded. And good players should suck it up if they get paired with a lesser player.
In all fairness the guy who complained the other day is kind of half crazy (on a good day) so it didn't surprise me when he went off the other day. In fact, I believe that his motivation is nothing more than just not wanting to get paired up with anyone but the best player because even though he has decent skills his mental game is far from perfect.
And this brings me to another point. If you don't have to fight for something do you really deserve it? If someone is just willing to hand you a victory because you showed up then what is that victory worth? Nothing really.
And BTW, our Sunday league as it is right now is very popular. It really doesn't need any tweaking. And you get guys who start out as being not so good and nobody wants to be paired up with them and then a year later they are winning. Everyone has to go through that learning curve, unless of course you get victories handed to you on a silver platter.
Finally, the guy I played with as a doubles partner on Sunday showed up last night for singles. He wants to learn and is willing to put in the work. I am also going to try and help him with his game, especially his drives which he needs to get down and keep flatter. When I talked with him after the round on Sunday he also told me that the guy who was complaining actually walked off on him halfway through a round and left him to play Cali. Lame and the kind of whiner attitude that I am talking about. If you come to play you need to do so.
This is why I no longer play Leagues.
" If I were to win because I got strokes that would not be a win. I wouldn't deserve it."
I played a guy who got 14+ strokes in League. This is even though he shoots under par. How fair is that ? I get -9 strokes so , in order for me to get 1 under par , I have to atleast shoot - 10 under par.
This other guy is all happy , saying he shot the course record of -18 under par. He shot -4 under with his + 14 stroke handicap.
Cheaters should not play Disc Golf.
I agree !!!! If you come to play , you had better play or give it your best !!!!
Never DNF on your partner without a Damn good reason , like for example , you just broke your arm or leg , your wife is giving birth , car accident.
You you DNF for playing badly , Quit Disc Golf and never play again.
Also you would need to reimburse your partner for leaving him to play by him/her self.
Couldn't have said it better Donny.
I love competition, win or lose. Winning is always better but I want to earn a win, not have it handed to me. Seems that there are some who just feel that they should win all of the time because they think so highly of themselves.
And anyone who walks off during a doubles round should be publicly shamed. It is nothing but BS. Did you come to play or not?
As an avid ball golfer, I get the whole idea of handicapping, and I've seen it used to good effect. Donny's explanation of how it's done in his league doesn't make sense to me as a ball golfer, but part of that might be how doubles are played in disc golf versus ball golf.
The biggest challenge to using a handicapping system in disc golf is consistency. Ball golfers pay big money up front to reserve tee times, and therefore have a personal investment to showing up every week for league like clockwork, or finding a suitable approved sub if they can't. You have a league secretary and a president, stats are kept all season long, sheets are provided to inform people about standings and prizes are awarded at the end of the season. Disc golf leagues seem to be set up casually as a "play when you can" system with prizes awarded on a weekly basis. Granted I've never played in a disc golf league (I'm new to disc), but I have several friends that do, and that's how they run the leagues here.
All that aside, handicapping would be the opposite of what your half-crazy disc golfer opponent would want. He wants A-B flights to provide him with the benefit of a loaded team, while in reality the flighted system would be leveling the playing field to make things more competitive across the field (drawing one A with one B to make teams) or in each individual flight (A flight competes as a tier with only A teams, B with B). Neither would benefit your conceited friend unless he tried to sandbag himself into the B pool.
A handicapped system can be a great and fun way to make a league more competitive, if it is done correctly. Imagine how fun it must be for the best player in your league to play a newbie? He's going to win, but is he getting the challenge out of it that drove him into league play (competition)? Now imagine he has to give that player 9 strokes? He may still win, but I bet he would have to work harder, would feel more challenged, and enjoy the victory more. For the B flight player who gets the strokes, I'm sure he's not going to win that match unless he's playing at his absolute best. As for claiming a course record? There is never such a thing as a handicapped course record and he should be told so.
Those are my two cents anyway! Cheers!!
Hey Jim !!!
On your last comment.
Yes , I know some who want to Win all the time , but don't want to move up to the next level of their game.
For Example , I know a few players who have been playing Am and winning for the last 10-15 years , can actually beat some Pro players , but will not move up to the next division.
This in turn prevents the Intermediate , Novice and other lower divisions also from moving up after winning because they see the Advanced Amateur players never Advancing to the Pro divisions. Some call them " Sandbaggers " or Cheaters.
Thanks Ray for your comments. I think they would actually work in a perfect world.
Here , some players know how to work the system though.
They will purposely sandbag so their handicap is really bad till the last day of league , then shoot lights out and look like Kings.
They know they can not beat someone better by playing heads up , as they have played too long under a rigged system.
We have done the paper system and have kept Digital Records of everyones real scores. Some still know how to work the system. They are called Professional Cheaters.
They actually wait till the course set up favors their playing style. Here , Basket and Pin positions on every hole are moved every Monday at the beginning of the week.
Tonight at doubles was decent. I played with a friend of mine who hasn't played in a while and we made a few mistakes along the way. I threw my disc into the rocks on the side of the hill twice. It took us a long time to find it both times. Not all of the putts were going in but we had a good time. Put my faith back into playing doubles. It would have been nice to have shot a bit better but that's OK. The only complaint I heard was from someone complaining that second only got money back this time ($5). I paid $30 to first as a reward tonight but will change the payout next time to $25 for first and $10 for second. But hey, second place is second place. At least you got your money back.
Sandbaggers are sandbaggers, and there could be pages of threads written about how to deal with them, and they STILL will find a way to work around the system. They are ever evolving like cockroaches.
I'd love to find a disc golf league run like a ball golf league. I think it would be cool if disc golf borrowed more things from ball golf sometimes. Standardized par and competition formats would bring disc golf a long way to being recognized as a competitive sport.
PS. That's awesome that your course has multiple basket positions, I just played a course on vacation with multiple baskets positions and tee pads on almost every hole. What an awesome way to keep your local course fresh and interesting.
Funny that you mention that about the basket positions. We also have multiple positions on our course and most people like the fact that you can "keep things fresh and interesting". However, there always has to be at least one person who complains that the baskets get moved too often.
Can't please everyone all of the time.