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I just looked at some of the pics from the Bowling Green event on the PDGA site. It says this is one of the oldest events in PDGA history. Claimed to be the Daytona 500 of Disc Golf. I was a little confused about some of the Pictures. From my interpretation of the rule book Atier events require shirts with a collar, or cool-dri type shirts. Like Nike, Huk lab, asics, and Under Armor produces. Its nice to see in the biggest oldest event that the TD's and Players didn't have enough respect for the game to follow one of the easiest rules in the book, but that's just my take.

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Two things.

First, does anyone else think its really shady that 3 of the top 5 players in Intermediate had no rating at all including the guy who won. This supposedly was their first ever PDGA event, really? I believe the top 10 of Rec had a couple like this as well. Doesn't this seem strange to anyone? This was my first ever out-of-state tournament, and as a 926 player I averaged about a 920 for the event. Seems about right since I just played average golf. Does this sort of thing happen all the time in tournament play?

Second, the players packs were great, but the prize payout for placing was terrible. I followed their instructions and was at meeting room 5 at 12:00 and was told to wait.... then about an hour later, I see a food cart rolling out of their meeting room, 45 minutes later they start handing out prizes. So they went ahead and ate in the AC while my country butt was left to sweat outside and be hungry for two hours. Here's the best part, for finishing in the top 15%, I knew I wasn't going to get much. I had been told by friends that the payouts are crap since they syphon alot of cash off to the pro event. Lucky for me, I was give my fourth "Striker" of the weekend, two poor boy minis, and some insurance companies ink pen?!? Thank you so much guys. I waited around for 2 hours hungry and sunburnt for something that isn't even a keepsake. How about this, next time order 200 discs that have a special BG ams stamp on it, so that way I won't leave feeling like I just got used. It costs very little to do, our local club does it all the time. And that way, people that place get a little something that is different and will remind them of their trip.

This was my first BG ams and will likely be my last.
slowRoll said:
Two things.

First, does anyone else think its really shady that 3 of the top 5 players in Intermediate had no rating at all including the guy who won. This supposedly was their first ever PDGA event, really? I believe the top 10 of Rec had a couple like this as well. Doesn't this seem strange to anyone? This was my first ever out-of-state tournament, and as a 926 player I averaged about a 920 for the event. Seems about right since I just played average golf. Does this sort of thing happen all the time in tournament play
Normally you have to play about 20 ratings points above the ratings cap to win in Intermediate, Recreational or Novice at a tournament where Intermediates play Intermediate, recreationals play recreational and novices play novice. Where you are from, Intermediates play Advanced, Recreationals play Intermediate and TDs don't offer Novice. Take, for example, the Crosstown Open VI from a couple of weeks ago. 20 players in Advanced. 2 of them were advanced. The rest were intermediates and below. 18 players in Intermediate. 3 of them were intermediate. The rest were Rec and below. When your expectations are based on everyone playing up a division, it looks like bagging when anyone plays in the division indicated by their skill level. The unrated guy who won Intermediate at Bowling Green beat a 913 rated player by one throw and a 928 rated player by 2 throws. He averaged 945 golf, 10 points above the cap. Doesn't look like bagging to me.
Mark Stephens said:
First, when it is not windy at BG AMs? LOL

Second, why do you think that the PDGA had ANYTHING to do with what players played in what pools????

Third, your player ratings is not determined by the PDGA ratings of the players you are playing with on any given day. It does not matter if you shoot with 1000 rated players or 950 rated players. I am sure that Chuck can tell you this in great detail. Also, all the ratings that you now see are the preliminary ratings. They will change once the TD report is turned in telling who played what courses on what days.
That's a pretty good ratings sound bite that covers most ratings gripes, but it is totally non-responsive to what the Rudibaugh was complaining about. Pool F had no gators. Currently, Pool F has no unofficial ratings for any of their rounds because they had no gators.
Chuck says the plan is to rate Pool F off the other pool that played the same courses. That may skew the rounds where the weather changed, but on the average you'll get an accurate rating if they do that.

If they don't do that, you have a legitimate complaint, but not against the PDGA. The decision to run a pool with no gators was a local decision. One would think that by now, competent TDs wouldn't do that. I think by now, competent TDs don't do that. That is one of those forehead tatoos of incompetence, when you run a pool with no gators for no particular reason.
I'm pretty sure it was Dave Gentry's call on the seeded pools and "no gators" pool assignment.
slowRoll said:
Two things.

First, does anyone else think its really shady that 3 of the top 5 players in Intermediate had no rating at all including the guy who won. This supposedly was their first ever PDGA event, really? .

This was my first BG ams and will likely be my last.


What is shady about not having a rating. The guy is a NEW pdga member. He signed up for the ATL open a couple of weeks ago. BG AM's was his second pdga tournament. Until the ratings update he has free reign to play where he wants. Congratz to Jason Tokio of Roswell, Ga for winning the Intermediate BG Am's.

Side note: This will probably be my last BG trip. C-Tiers run by Keith Johnson here in Ga pay over 170% up to 200%. SPONSORSHIP is in place for us all. All these tourneys are well worth the money. Come down to GA but sign up early as the last KJ C-tier sold out in around 80 hours!
No player without a rating has free reign to play in any division. The TD can limit the division options for any non-rated player.
Thats a good way of looking at which division to play in Bruce, but still doesn't address the question I had. Why are unranked players dominating such a huge tournament? Its not for me to decide what division they need to be playing in, and obviously they won't be playing Int ever again with scores like that. The 935 and under rule will take care of that. I'm just saying it looks really shady that some guys who obviously play really well and have played alot, somehow don't have a ranking and just destroy the int division.

I didn't play well and I didn't deserve to win. I'm not saying that anybody is bagging. Just as a programmer thinking logically, I'm saying that the system seems flawed. If really good players(and obviously by beating 161 other guys they are really good) don't have a ranking at all, they can cherry pick where they want to play. But they can do this only once right? I have heard a guy tell me that he has more than one PDGA account. How does that even happen? Will these guys be forced to play advanced now that they will have 940+ ratings?

I am going to heed your advice Bruce. I've only won one tournament in the 2 years I've played and am rated for intermediate. I'm not playing another event at advanced until my rating tells me to do so. I don't feel guilty about it since I am playing by the rules layed down for all of us to follow. I just feel like the whole unrateds domintaing the tournament seems shady, like we were ambushed by advanced level players who for whatever reason never had a ranking.

Bruce Brakel said:
slowRoll said:
Two things.

First, does anyone else think its really shady that 3 of the top 5 players in Intermediate had no rating at all including the guy who won. This supposedly was their first ever PDGA event, really? I believe the top 10 of Rec had a couple like this as well. Doesn't this seem strange to anyone? This was my first ever out-of-state tournament, and as a 926 player I averaged about a 920 for the event. Seems about right since I just played average golf. Does this sort of thing happen all the time in tournament play
Normally you have to play about 20 ratings points above the ratings cap to win in Intermediate, Recreational or Novice at a tournament where Intermediates play Intermediate, recreationals play recreational and novices play novice. Where you are from, Intermediates play Advanced, Recreationals play Intermediate and TDs don't offer Novice. Take, for example, the Crosstown Open VI from a couple of weeks ago. 20 players in Advanced. 2 of them were advanced. The rest were intermediates and below. 18 players in Intermediate. 3 of them were intermediate. The rest were Rec and below. When your expectations are based on everyone playing up a division, it looks like bagging when anyone plays in the division indicated by their skill level. The unrated guy who won Intermediate at Bowling Green beat a 913 rated player by one throw and a 928 rated player by 2 throws. He averaged 945 golf, 10 points above the cap. Doesn't look like bagging to me.
Ok Td always has final say. You are talking more about people who wont join pdga and are really good and still bag in ams. How much muck could one player raise in the short time between ratings updates once theyve joined. I have played a bunch of sports in my day and no other sport has cry-babies like this one! Remember there is only ONE winner and everyone else is a loser.
I meant no offense to the specific guys who won. Like I said, in my mind, they are really good players who played well, that's why they won. My point was mearly about the system that is in place. I fix bugs in programs all the time, and that's all I view this as. Until players join the PDGA and become officially ranked there is no way to track their progress. You hear the same thing in poker all the time. A guy has never won a tournament, but is a "cash game specialist". I'm sure Jason Tokio of Roswell, Ga has been smacking guys around there for a little while now. The PDGA has some baseline standards in place but its up to the honor system for people to follow them. You know how far you can drive, you know how many twenty footers you make out of ten tries.I highly doubt that anyone who can post scores like the ones that were posted in int this weekend only hit 5 out of 10 putts from 20 foot.This sports organizational growth is still in its infancy. I'm sure over time it will evolve and there will be rules in place to further break down the categories of players. Its already come a long way from just being a pro or am.

Thanks for the info about the GA events. I'll have to check it out this summer. We have a great website with all our tournament info on it created by some goofy programmer guy <----
http://www.tndiscgolf.com
Check it out to see all the events we have coming up as well.

Kade Atkinson said:
slowRoll said:
Two things.

First, does anyone else think its really shady that 3 of the top 5 players in Intermediate had no rating at all including the guy who won. This supposedly was their first ever PDGA event, really? .

This was my first BG ams and will likely be my last.


What is shady about not having a rating. The guy is a NEW pdga member. He signed up for the ATL open a couple of weeks ago. BG AM's was his second pdga tournament. Until the ratings update he has free reign to play where he wants. Congratz to Jason Tokio of Roswell, Ga for winning the Intermediate BG Am's.

Side note: This will probably be my last BG trip. C-Tiers run by Keith Johnson here in Ga pay over 170% up to 200%. SPONSORSHIP is in place for us all. All these tourneys are well worth the money. Come down to GA but sign up early as the last KJ C-tier sold out in around 80 hours!
Do you have a suggestion for a better way to handle players without ratings? It's not like the alternatives haven't been considered. But they all seem to have drawbacks. For example, you could prevent bagging entirely if they were forced to play Open until they get a rating. But for every hot shot who maybe takes advantage of the system by playing in a lower division until their rating gets published, there are 5 other legit new players who don't have a chance even in Intermediate or Advanced. Most players also play worse in PDGA competition even on their home courses the first time they enter.
Dude, its just a discussion. Nobodys crying. This is how grown people work out their problems.

Kade Atkinson said:
Ok Td always has final say. You are talking more about people who wont join pdga and are really good and still bag in ams. How much muck could one player raise in the short time between ratings updates once theyve joined. I have played a bunch of sports in my day and no other sport has cry-babies like this one! Remember there is only ONE winner and everyone else is a loser.
Speaking of Ratings............
The PDGA needs to require that you are a paid member before you play in any event(NO EXCEPTIONS). This would stop a lot of this. They also need to require that your play your rating. I am from Louisville and have been led to believe that I was an Advanced player. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I am obviously exactly what I am rated 892 (REC). Never again will I play outside of my rating. I had my rear handed to me by the Advanced class. I placed 135th and was not pleased at all. I know this mostly my fault and am not trying to place the blame upon anyone. I should have just played my rating. However this could all be solved by the PDGA if they would require everyone at every event to play what they are rated. If someone is new and has no rating than they should have to start at the bottom and work there way up the ranks. A lot of the problems could be solved this way!!!!!!!!!

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