Bowling Green Ams

I just looked at some of the pics from the Bowling Green event on the PDGA site. It says this is one of the oldest events in PDGA history. Claimed to be the Daytona 500 of Disc Golf. I was a little confused about some of the Pictures. From my interpretation of the rule book Atier events require shirts with a collar, or cool-dri type shirts. Like Nike, Huk lab, asics, and Under Armor produces. Its nice to see in the biggest oldest event that the TD's and Players didn't have enough respect for the game to follow one of the easiest rules in the book, but that's just my take.

[slowRoll]

I guess thats what I was hoping to hear from guys like you Chuck. Most of the guys who are on this site have played the game a long time and really care about whats best for the game. I was just hoping to hear some of our experienced players thoughts on this. Kade is probably right, how much damage can they cause in a 3 month time frame? Probably not enough to matter. But the honor system only works for those who will abide by it and will subject themselves to that system of values.

Chuck Kennedy said:

Do you have a suggestion for a better way to handle players without ratings? It's not like the alternatives haven't been considered. But they all seem to have drawbacks. For example, you could prevent bagging entirely if they were forced to play Open until they get a rating. But for every hot shot who maybe takes advantage of the system by playing in a lower division until their rating gets published, there are 5 other legit new players who don't have a chance even in Intermediate or Advanced. Most players also play worse in PDGA competition even on their home courses the first time they enter.

[Kade Atkinson]

Chuck Kennedy said:

Do you have a suggestion for a better way to handle players without ratings? Most players also play worse in PDGA competition even on their home courses the first time they enter.

I think the ratings rules in place work fine. The instances where non-rated players bag is almost non-existant from what i've seen. I have never seen it. Here in ATL If you bag than everone knows it, its nothing new. A bagger plays alot and everyone knows it b/c you probably play with 'em. Everyone then proceeds to publicly humiliate this person until they move to the correct division OR the TD will do it, like we have previously discussed. But this does bring up the question, If you travel then how is a TD to know how good you are? Hearsay? I hope not. The >< numbers work fine in this case. So if you have no rating you get to win for a short period of time, so what.

[slowRoll]

I was told by some Michigan guys I met this weekend that this is a southern thing, the peer pressure to move up the first time you do good in an event. Like I said in my previous post, I'm not going to let that influence me ever again. I do want to play against better players, but I'm going to look at that 935 number as me earning the right to play with them. So I'll see how long it takes me to earn my stripes.

Russell Gore said:

Speaking of Ratings............
The PDGA needs to require that you are a paid member before you play in any event(NO EXCEPTIONS). This would stop a lot of this. They also need to require that your play your rating. I am from Louisville and have been led to believe that I was an Advanced player. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I am obviously exactly what I am rated 892 (REC). Never again will I play outside of my rating. I had my rear handed to me by the Advanced class. I placed 135th and was not pleased at all. I know this mostly my fault and am not trying to place the blame upon anyone. I should have just played my rating. However this could all be solved by the PDGA if they would require everyone at every event to play what they are rated. If someone is new and has no rating than they should have to start at the bottom and work there way up the ranks. A lot of the problems could be solved this way!!!!!!!!!

[Chuck Kennedy]

As Bruce points out, much of the sandbagging talk occurs because in most parts of the country, players play above their rating level. There's nothing really wrong with that except what happens is because we pay out 45% to 50% of Ams, these lower rated players will cash and think they are really good enough to play at this higher level even though they cashed shooting a rating that averaged in the division below the one they entered. These false expectations among lower rated players playing up lead to calling out players as sandbaggers who legitimately are playing in the division they should be and shooting round ratings appropriate for that division to cash/win. But I'm not sure the solution is to force players to play at their rating level.

[Chuck Kennedy]

The place to play up and learn is local leagues where you play one round. Players with much lower ratings can cash every so often in a single round. Once you start playing 3 or 4 rounds at a tournament, and your true current skill level emerges on average and it's much tougher to cash playing up.

[The Rudibaughs]

If ams are paid out up 45%-50%, why can Bowling Green pay out less than 35%? Are there guidelines in place about that or is it something that is at the discretion of the TD's? Rec men had at least 90+ guys and only 25 spots were paid out.

[The Rudibaughs]

nice.

[Will Corey]

Ha, If they start requiring membership for every event, we wont have any more PDGA Events here. People dont see the needs to spend $50 more to play in one event

[Bruce Brakel]

They cashed for $0.00. That is so double plus good Orwellian. My daughter who collects Orwellianisms will enjoy that.

[Bruce Brakel]

I think it is great that players in some parts of the country all play up. I don't feel a need to adopt local customs when I'm playing a PDGA sanctioned event. When I travel with my wife and daughters, its fun when we can all finish well just by playing in the division indicated by our ratings and making a good effort. I think there should be a rule that if your last name is not Brakel and you live anywhere south of Michigan, you have to play up a division! Why leave it to volunteerism?

[4U2NV]

finishing tied for 119 in advanced I knew what I was getting myself into. However, I agree with those people saying the way pools were seeded SUCKED! I feel for Mr. Nate Day in Pool B who threw well all weekend tied for #1 after the 3rd round until he was knocked out of the final nine contention by 1 throw after the 4th round. Everyone has a chance. Just because you have a higher rating doesn't mean you have a better chance then someone else because their rating is lower. People get better, tournaments don't get reported on time. Ratings take 2 to 3 months to get updated. In an event like this pools should have been stagger rated not high low rated. This would allow for the most accurate ratings to be given because you would have a broader range of ratings to compete against. mind you I am currently a 876 rated player, I played in Advanced in this tournament and knew I would not be cashing I was there to have fun and try to learn from other players that are better then myself. However It is hard to do that when you get suck with people that have the same player rating or darn near it.

Chuck K will say it is how well you do compared to who you play with. Yep, when you play with people 850-934 or 1004-934 there is a compression in the ratings if you have the opportunity to play with people from 1000-850 then you have a better foundation to base your rating on.

Something though that was sketchy though was the doubles rounds before the tournament. there were how many teams? and the winners got what? A disc and $10 gift cert money? No trophy? For $24? Seriously, guys looks like we all should have just played a round of doubles reported the score and then bought something from the flymart for $24. At least then we would have all got something and the people running doubles would not have made off with a couple grand in cash for standing behind thier tables of discs and collecting scorecards.

Russell Gore said:

Speaking of Ratings............
The PDGA needs to require that you are a paid member before you play in any event(NO EXCEPTIONS). This would stop a lot of this. They also need to require that your play your rating. I am from Louisville and have been led to believe that I was an Advanced player. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I am obviously exactly what I am rated 892 (REC). Never again will I play outside of my rating. I had my rear handed to me by the Advanced class. I placed 135th and was not pleased at all. I know this mostly my fault and am not trying to place the blame upon anyone. I should have just played my rating. However this could all be solved by the PDGA if they would require everyone at every event to play what they are rated. If someone is new and has no rating than they should have to start at the bottom and work there way up the ranks. A lot of the problems could be solved this way!!!!!!!!!

[Nascar Mike]

I have a response to this. How about all Pdga members without a player rating, all non-current members, and all non-Pdga members play in the same division. You could call it the "bagger" division. Everyone... well some of us want this sport to grow. Respect and take care of the people that support the PDGA by membership and that $2 or $3 dollars that comes out of your entry fee. Adds up when you play events all the time. This other division would prevent non-pdga members from bagging at their home course. You know those guys...been playing for 15 years and smoke the intermediate field by 20 strokes. Basically the Pdga punishes its members by letting these players who are not rated play in their division. That's just my take..........Up next "should people shooting 1000 rated rounds be allowed to still compete in Advanced?"

Chuck Kennedy said:

Do you have a suggestion for a better way to handle players without ratings? It's not like the alternatives haven't been considered. But they all seem to have drawbacks. For example, you could prevent bagging entirely if they were forced to play Open until they get a rating. But for every hot shot who maybe takes advantage of the system by playing in a lower division until their rating gets published, there are 5 other legit new players who don't have a chance even in Intermediate or Advanced. Most players also play worse in PDGA competition even on their home courses the first time they enter.