Can downed tree trunks and stumps considered playing surfaces?

In Pittsford VT there is a new Disc Golf Course that was created by cutting down some large trees to clear the fairways.  However, as a result the course has a number of large trunks and stumps on most fairways.  Playing casual rounds we frequently find ourselves with lies tree trunks.  There is one spot where three large trunks (4’ – 5’ in diameter) are laying parallel to the course and twice my disc has landed ¾’s up the middle trunk towards the hole.  If I was to treat the tree trunks as an obstacle and marked my lie 30 centimeters behind the tree trunk I would be about 35’ behind where I landed.

So can downed tree trunks and stumps considered playing surfaces?

[Ghost]

If the stumps are flat and still in the ground then I would say that it is part of the playing surface.  It really depends of the tournament director and what he declares what is safe or not.  The rules really leave it up to them. If not you have up to 30 cm you don't have to go all the way back so if there is space b/w them you could place your marker there.  In a casual round I would play from the tree stump.

[Yeddie VanHalen]

My guess:

Stumps: Yes. Loose branches, cut logs, etc: No

It's all about attachment

[kevin johnson]

I play in the redwoods and we play it where it lies. ive thrown form inside a stump on many occasions and one is even the teepad.

[Jim Coonradt]

Nice pic!

[kevin johnson]

It's hole 2 at the redwood curtian behind humboldt state university.

 

[Mark Janssen]

absolutely awesome pic. I am jealous.

[Ben Calhoun]

That was a fun course

[David Jameson]

Really cool photo!

[Mike McFarlin]

If the three logs bridge a ravine would they be considered a playing surface?  What about logs set for erosion control and mud advoidance? 

I realize in a tournament it's up to the TD, but what about leagues and Bag-tag challenges?  Does this have to be addressed befor play each time? 

[Ghost]

If you play for tags with some of the guys I play with you could discuss it before hand and still have an argument about it when it happened.  but I would say that if it is possibly an issue I would discuss it before each time. or just have the #1 tag get to decide

[Mark Janssen]

this could be covered in the new rule about disc "below ground" this would allow you to throw from on top of the trunk, directly above you lie.

 

DISC ABOVE OR BELOW THE PLAYING SURFACE: 803.08
The “disc below playing surface” phrase has been moved from the Rules Q&A and added to this rule. This applies to a disc located down on a “non-playing surface” that players would not be able to play from such as a crack in the ground. The “disc below playing surface” section does not apply to a disc resting on or above a playing surface where another playing surface like a bridge might also pass above the disc. It’s possible that moving vertically from the front edge of the disc closest to the target up to the level playing surface might be a point in space. If so, then mark the lie on the playing surface near the edge of the crack on the line of play no closer to the target.

 

[Chuck Kennedy]

The TD or course designer can indicate how the trunk area should be played. Without that guidance, the group can intepret whether an obstacle can reasonably be considered a playing surface based on two primary factors. One, is it a surface where the average person could climb to stand on. Two, is it relatively safe enough for those who are capable of climbing onto it, to make a throw. It sounds like these trunks are big enough that my vote in the group would be that you could climb on them. But as you indicated, you could also take solid object relief back from your disc on the line of play with no penalty until you could mark on the ground. If this is a tournament round, play a provisional from both positions and let the TD decide if the group allowing play from the log will be acceptable. If not, then you have the provisional score from the back position to fall back on.