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Okay, lets have it. I'm tired of getting randomly sniped in other posts about the Challenger coming from a mold copied from the Aviar. I want it all at once and once and for all. Any evidence you could supply me to support this claim would be nice, but not necessary. Unsupported and unitelligible rants are more amusing anyway. I want all of you Discraft haters to come of the woodwork, so that I can observe you in the light.

Also, if Mark Ellis, Terry Calhoun, or Chuck Kennedy would be so kind as to post on this thread and forever end the rumor that the challenger is a cloned aviar, that would be nice, as people actually listen to you guys.

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Mike Jenkins said:
Agreed .. so annoying to be reading a thread and have the rating boosting comments in there ... it really doesnt matter if you post more than other people ... its more respected if what you have to say is actually relevant and has some meaning, Thanks lotto for saying what we all feel

On the note of the topic, the challenger fits my hand, the feels a little off, yes they are similar but no way are they the same

Lotto said:
Hey! This was supposed to be a place to rag on the people who say Challengers are imitations of Aviars, not a slam session on Donny Olow. I actually like Donny's upbeat posts. In the middle of a heated discussion board and angery debate you'll find Donny with a post like, "I love disc golf !!!!!" I think it's bit of fresh air that lightens the mood.
unrelated, but...

Donny Olow = Most Useless Posts EVER!

Hey! This was supposed to be a place to rag on the people who say Challengers are imitations of Aviars, not a slam session on Donny Olow. I actually like Donny's upbeat posts. In the middle of a heated discussion board and angery debate you'll find Donny with a post like, "I love disc golf !!!!!" I think it's bit of fresh air that lightens the mood. :-) A little randomness never hurt anyone...well I guess I can't qualify that statement. But I'm pretty sure Donny Olow never hurt anyone...okay, I don't know if that's true either, but his posts have never hurt me...
Donny Olow said:
Where did the Original Idea of the Challenger come from ?

When a young boy looked up into the stars not so many years ago... (space shuttle challenger....sorry, couldn't resist)
I am not a reliable historian on this topic because I have always loved the Magnet and haven't paid much attention to the Challenger. I believe the Challenger was created when Cam Todd came onto the Discraft Team. Cam had previously been sponsored by Innova and putted with Aviars. Cam wanted a putter more to his liking and the Challenger was designed. I'm sure the Challenger has some basic similarities to an Aviar but if you look at the numerous versions of the Aviar, you will notice lots of variations in molds and plastics.

Aviars, Magnets, Challengers, Wizards and Omegas are all pretty similar discs, especially when used for putting. If you are only throwing a disc 30 feet or so at slow speeds none of them are going to fly all that differently. Putting is more about feel than flight patterns.

While I am a lawyer, I am not Discraft's lawyer and have only passing knowledge of patent law and the lawsuit among Innova, Discraft and Lightening. My basic (but possibly flawed) understanding is that while Innova's patent on the beveled edge disc was in effect, Discraft, in settlement of the lawsuit agreed to pay Innova a stipend for the beveled edged discs it produced. I think Discraft, if it chose to do so under the settlement, could have identically knocked off the Aviar. Obviously they chose to make noticeably distinctive disc.

I would guess that a hard Challenger flies pretty similar to a stiff Big Bead Aviar as a driver. Of course, I don't throw either disc as a driver. I throw hard and soft Magnets. The Aviars I liked best were the old Beadless Aviars.
This is quite entertaining, 2x world champion, and 2008 usdgc winner Nate Doss uses a discraft challenger. He also has a very different putting style compared to most players, he puts on a turnover angle.

Ryno Malaki said:
THE DISCS ARE NOTHING ALIKE>>>>>AVAIRS ARE GOOD TURN OVER PUTTERS.....CHALLENGERS>>>>NOT SO MUCH...
i thought challengers were somewhat overstable and at least some of the aviars i've used are under.
All it takes to make a disc slightly different is 1/1000 of a inch. Flight patterns is what I'm talking about !!!

Not sure who likes to hate more . I'm not bitter because I can't play all year long. I live in paradise. I love Disc Golf !!!!!

I actually have this type of Challenger and it works well in cold weather.
Donny Olow said:
All it takes to make a disc slightly different is 1/1000 of a inch. Flight patterns is what I'm talking about !!!

Not sure who likes to hate more . I'm not bitter because I can't play all year long. I live in paradise. I love Disc Golf !!!!!

i live in michigan and i play all year round?
wow !!!

Lotto said:
Donny Olow said:
All it takes to make a disc slightly different is 1/1000 of a inch. Flight patterns is what I'm talking about !!!

Not sure who likes to hate more . I'm not bitter because I can't play all year long. I live in paradise. I love Disc Golf !!!!!

i live in michigan and i play all year round?
I live in Michigan and I play disc golf all year long. No fair weather golfer here...I love disc golf!!!!
same here. lotto and i take turns between who is more hardcore, but its safe to say we're near the top percentile dgers in that category.

Mike said:
I live in Michigan and I play disc golf all year long. No fair weather golfer here...I love disc golf!!!!
I think you are misplacing some anger Brandon. I don't hate the Challenger...it is an inanimate object. It is hard to hear the tone in text but I heard yours. Your scared. Like a bunny rabbit. Anything with the Innova logo is going to scares you...so put a Challenger on a string and drag it through South Boston...thanks for coming out. Brandon, if you are comfortable putting with a Cloned-Aviar...it's cool with me.

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