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Howdy y'all. Please help me settle a friendly dispute.

What is the par of your local courses? Are they all par 54? Do you make a 700 foot hole a par 3 because the score are "relative" to the others? I support the argument that creating par 4s and 5s on a course make it more interesting, but my fellow Santa Feans don't agree. 

Thank you in Advance.

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All 3's is an easy way to keep score. For 4s and 5s, you need 500 ft or more and/or hazards and OB on the the hole. A hole that is 275' with a pond is a par 4. 450' in open field still is a 3. 700 footers should be par 4 or 5s.

I think this has been beat to death. Disc golf pretty much decided to go the way of par-3's on everything or ignore par altogether. Par doesn't matter at the end of the round- your score is still higher or lower than your competitor's regardless of what it is 'to par'. It's really impossible to tell someone what a good score on a hole should be for them, we're all different.

http://www.maplehillopen.com/the-course.html

This should give you a good idea of what makes par 3's, 4's, or 5's

I agree with you 100%. There needs to be courses with par 4s and par 5s. The old par 3 model is simply outdated. We are in the process of designing a couple of new courses here, both on the same piece of land. One will be the traditional par 3 type of course yet designed to be very challenging. The other course will be much longer and will not be a par 3 course. I am part of one design team competing to produce a design for the long course. We started out with a hole that can be played either as a par 3 or par 4 depending on where the basket is (par will vary in this case). The next hole will be either a par 4 or 5 followed by a difficult par 3. After that we have a 1500 foot par 6 hole that is uphill to a basket on top of a large hill. It would make no sense to call that hole a par 3.

Anyway, none of this is set in stone at the moment and we are also entertaining the possibility of having shorter positions on that super long hole so that it doesn't have to always be played long but the long position will be available for those who choose to play it or for a tournament. So there is the possibility of having two separate baskets on that hole or alternate tees. Too early to say what will happen at this point however.

But par 3 courses IMHO are a thing of the past and we should try to move away from that model. If the land is available we need longer holes (par 4s and par 5s). They have it in ball golf and we should have it as well.

I have already run up against the usual resistance to our ideas, that people won't play a course if it is too difficult. But in our case, we kind of want that. The shorter course may be more suitable to casual players while the long course will set up nicely for those who want a real challenge. And hopefully the length and difficulty of the long course might keep some of the idiots away.

1500 feet uphill, we are going to start needing golf carts lol. Personally I think anything over par 5 is just unneeded,  why not have a 900 foot par 4-5 and a 600 foot par 4? 

Ummmm, 400-500 uphill plays like 600-700- even 800 depending on how steep it is? Chop up the uphill and then go for the 1200 footer on the way back down.

For the O.P., what don't yourSanta Feans agree with?  That there should be 700' pars 4s & 5s, or that the 700' hole should be labeled a par 4 or 5?

Ben's right, this has been beaten to death.  But if we're going to beat the corpse, how about a few definitions?

All-par-3 can refer to courses, such as many old school courses that are truly all-par-3.  Or it can refer to those of us who call all holes "Par 3", regardless of length and doglegs.  We are, of course, badly abusing and mis-using the word "par".  What we really mean is a kind of scorekeeping shorthand, where scores are kept "relative to 3".

Then there's design.  No matter how you label them, some holes are designed to be played in more than 3 shots.  Long holes, holes with multiple doglegs, etc.  Some of us believe, no matter what you call "par", that these holes are a good thing.  Around here, they're increasingly common.

Clarification. I'm not asking your opinion on the matter (but you're free to express it), I'm simply asking what par is on your local courses.

My mates argue that everything should be a par 3 "because were not like ball golf and don't need par 4's and 5s"--Which I think is a bogus excuse. Playing a 800 foot hole as a par 3 defies logic. 

this was my example to begin with, and it fell on deaf ears...

Nothing is set in stone at this point but we have a lot of land and would like to have a "signature hole" on that layout. You can actually see the basket (or at least where it will go) from the tee. Also if we put in either another basket or alternate tees a DGer will have options. However, there would still be the possibility of shortening it up a little so that it is a par 5. Also, alternate tees could be used to provide for different pars. One tee could be for the par 6, one for par 5 and one for par 4.

We are very early in the design phase at this point but we do know that we won't be staying with par 3s on the longer course. At this point we are hopeful that the city will approve our courses in the end. If they do it will be a giant leap forward for us. And wouldn't it be nice to be able to say that we have the longest hole in the US? A 1500 ft. hole is not one that anyone would easily forget. I am also just guesstimating the length as we just measured in paces the other day.

Agree 100%.

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