Course Survey

Howdy y'all. Please help me settle a friendly dispute.

What is the par of your local courses? Are they all par 54? Do you make a 700 foot hole a par 3 because the score are "relative" to the others? I support the argument that creating par 4s and 5s on a course make it more interesting, but my fellow Santa Feans don't agree. 

Thank you in Advance.

[David Sauls]

So where do I fall on the laziness scale?

I built a course with par 4s and par 5s.  They're shown that way on our scorecrads.  If you arrive late for a tournament round, your penalty will be these pars+4.  I tabulate scores from tournaments to validate the pars.  I play the par-5s with a strategy to get a 5, 4 if I throw very well.

But when I go out to play casually, I don't bother with a scorecard and I keep my score "relative to 3".  I'll call a 4 "1 over" and add it to my running score.  I'll know how much I'm trailing my opponent by this running score.  At the end, I'll take this running total ("11 over"), do the simple math to add to to 54, and have my round score.

[Ryan S. Flahive]

I don't consider you lazy, primarily because I don't know you--but you play and score the 4s and 5s appropriately when they're supposed to be played 4s and 5s--money rounds, leagues, tourneys, etc. Your casual rounds are your casual rounds; you can score it however you please.

i think a bigger issue is that our pasttime wants to be so distanced from our ball-based forefather, that some believe we shouldn't have par 4s and 5s because that's what golf courses have; that some how throwing '54' all the time is being different from the grand game of golf. And I think that attitude is silly and petty.

[David Sauls]

Fair enough.  I've never encountered anyone who didn't want par-4s and par-5s because it would be like (ball) golf.  Around here the trend is more courses with true par-4s and -5s, and the talk tends to be arguments as to what par should be assigned to a hole.

But among people I know, even those who have been arguing that "Hole 6 should be a par-5, not a par-4", at tournaments they'll shoot a 58 and call it "4 over par", ignoring the posted pars.  It's a legacy of the time when our courses were truly all-par-3s (and we still use those kinds of courses, too).

I'm of the camp that thinks it's not terribly important, either way.  We need to establish higher pars to proportionately penalize late arrivals.  But the standards for "par" aren't universally agreed upon and even less universally applied, so they're not all that useful.

[Steve Belliveau]

lately tourneys here all [most all] fill if someones late the waiting list gets their spot. 

[David Sauls]

I was referring to late arrival for the start of a round.  Seldom an issue with round 1, but with returning from lunch and round 3 on 2-day events.  If you're not there in time to tee off, rule says your score is "par plus 4".  It's important to set pars so that the player late to start on the 1,000-foot, double-dogleg wooded hole doesn't get the same score as the player late to start on the 180-foot open ace-run hole.

For all the passionate debates on "par", this circumstance where it actually matters.

[Disc Player Sports]

Played courses that were marked on the tee sign as par 3, 4, 5.

During tournament play the 4's & 5's were par 3 for the Pro Level.

And on the other hand at different times there were par 4's & 5's during tournament play, at other tournaments.

As far as the score goes the lowest score wins? Correct.?

You can make a hole any par you like, it always come down to score.

I suggest that before you establish a par for a difficult hole (it is not always distance that establishes it) run league or some organized events on it before you assign a permanent par number.

If out of 50 scores, these being more experienced disc golfers (advanced-pro level) see how the scores fall.

If it leans toward score 2 or 3, then make it a par 3.

If it averages at score 4, then make it a par 4......

If the best score is a 4, then make it a par 5.

Let actual play of the hole establish the par.

After all you don't put in tee pads until way after a hole is determined do you?

Why put par on a hole until it is also established.

[Pete Maher]

Par Guidelines

[Disc Player Sports]

Saw it and not impressed with the PDGA much.

[Chuck Kennedy]

Of course, you're such the expert, eh?

[Disc Player Sports]

Nothing personal, but it is only a guide.

You need to take in terrain, wind, ob's etc.

Each course has its own elements to deal with.

Distance should not be the major factor.

Of course you know that there are always aspects that make a course.

Ever play the "Canyon in Brooksvile?" Now there is a place that could have had many par 4s and 5s.

Not worth arguing about.

[Chuck Kennedy]

The PDGA Guideline is the simplified version and doesn't indicate that the length needs to be adjusted for elevation. Members of the Disc Golf Course Design group have the full blown detailed version that covers the factors and more than you mention. However, effective length (taking elevation changes and doglegs into account) IS the most significant factor in setting par, far and away the primary factor statistically and dwarfs all other elements with foliage density a distant second.

[Disc Player Sports]

Then you see, we do agree.

Not everyone is going to solicit the DG Course Design group.

Some of the most used, and effective courses were not designed by them.

Don't see it on many courses going in.

When you consider private property, and public. this sport is still too young to have a governing body design group.

Who designed Maple Hill, Moccasin Lake, Brandywine, ...... the list is many.....