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Disc Golf in Canada is free and easy ......... kind of like our health care system.

Our Medicare system is just like a long straight pull down the middle ........ very effective and takes the worry and pain of being sick in Canada. Prior to 1963 we had a system like America. Private insurance and no insurance mostly people got sick and just had to pay a bill. Doctors never got fully paid for their services and monies were hard to collect. Since Medicare's inception everybody in the country is on the same premium, usually half paid by your employer. Everybody is covered. Emergency care is treated first, no one dies from lack of care and the care is wonderful. If you need a new knee and it's not emergent you wait a year. New heart valves right away. It's a wonderful way to live assured that you have coverage.
I had a recent conversation with an American doctor while cruising on the cruise ship to Alaska. I said why are you Yanks so afraid of Medicare. He said it was basic greed. That I didn't understand.

He said all the folks that have good health coverage now and have the where with all to pay for it, don't want the universal healthcare for all because it will take away resources from them. Doctors and nurses will be not so able to just look after their high priced needs. Just basic greed. As a proud Canadian one of about 88% that love the Canadian system I say Push On get the system that covers everyone.

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Unfortunately I only had hard copies I sent out well over a month ago. I didn't have the foresight to save a copy of each on my computer, I figured sent it out to everyone I know and leave it be. You can certainly find all proposed bills if you are willing to navigate enough the various websites dedicated to the Government, senate.gov and house.gov come to mind.. In the process you can also check and see how your representatives are voting on important issues. And here you can download the current bill that they are trying to push through as we debate this topic.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_...

My issues really start to come to light on page 16 where you begin to realize that while given a choice, it really isn't a choice. It's a plan for take over while allowing them to say "We give you a choice.".

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT
2 COVERAGE.
3 (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV4
ERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of
5 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov6
erage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health
7 insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance
8 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the
9 first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
10 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef15
fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.
17 (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PER18
MITTED.—Subparagraph (A) shall not affect
19 the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an
20 individual who is covered as of such first day.
21 (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR
22 CONDITIONS.—Subject to paragraph (3) and except
23 as required by law, the issuer does not change any
24 of its terms or conditions, including benefits and
25 cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day be26
fore the first day of Y1.

Have fun! It's an entertaining read.

EVERYONE PLEASE READ IT!
Here is another product of our health care system... Health care costs are causing most of the bankruptcys in the US. http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jun2009/db20090...
Did you see the later news story also explaining that the study was greatly flawed and the numbers highly skewed by including accidental deaths into those numbers, and people not even seeking health care or not seeking it in time to be saved, and also terminal illness as well actually making up a much larger part of the actual percentages than death resulting from lack of proper health care insurance? I can get a grant do a study and make the numbers look any way I want to simply by omitting certain criteria from that study to make it look like a much worse situation than it really is. What you read on the internet and hear on the news is typically about as accurate as saying 1+2=46.
Awesome, let's get it done, Government run health care NOW! Who cares if it bankrupts the country, we must save a few families at the cost of the majority! GET IT DONE NOW! GO GO OBAMA!

I mean who really doesn't want to live in a third world country? I can't wait! Read the bill people! Then ask yourself what are you willing to give up for it. I mean the Government is doing a bang up job of fixing our problems and have been doing fabulously for the last 50 years! I would hate to know I have to think or do for myself! Free money, health care coverage and cookies for everybody! Sign me up! I'm convinced! The interwebs prooved it to meh!

READ THE BILL!
Yes, the info is right, the person doing the study and the news stations said so! The other person involved in the study lies! The other person and the news stations said so! Even president nobama said so, it must be accurate!

1+2=46 because I said so. While were at it, I made 26 aces in a row last night, I'm just not going to tell you the criteria for those aces. Believe me?

Everyone including those covered by health insurace and those not have a 100% chance of dying! That is the one FACT you can trust.
FYI, Jeff,

Your math is off. Jeff said, "Plus 88% of Canadians love the system. That's 22% that do not."

The correct figure is 12% that do not love it.
Look, I have a bad habit of allowing my passion to shine through.

I don't think the discussion should actually continue, I can find a thousand studies backing up my opinion, you guy on the opposite side of the fence can find a thousand to backup your opinions.

For the record, I am not against revamping and fixing the glaring issues in our healthcare system so that it better benefits everyone. I am however absolutely against a complete government take over (If you would PLEASE read the bill you will be able to easily see how it turns into a take over.). Everything they get their hands on either stays the same or gets worse, they then can then turn around and promise improvements during campaigns to garner support. In the end, there will be another politician years down the road promising to fix it, after 20 years of promises it will still be screwed up a minor improvement here and there, then a couple of backward steps on other important issues, the next one will fix that at the detriment to the other back and forth back and forth. It's how they keep you tied to them. A government take over is NOT the solution.

That is where my issue lies. I can find too many studies telling me that I need to support the Governments plans, I can also in turn find many sound reasons why I shouldn't. Your excuses for support are no more sound and factual than anything I can find in the media to support my view.

My point is, I HAVE studied these bills, I have educated myself on what the politician want to do, I can not and will NEVER support their plans. I DO have experience in a healthcare system controlled by my Government, it's not pleasant. I can not and will NEVER support that.

This has nothing to do with making healthcare more accessible to everyone. How can that possibly be the wrong thing to do? This has everything to do with the methods they want to impose in order to do that. Ask yourself, do you wnt our national debt to skyrocket an additional 88 billion Dollars over the next 10 years? (not counting hidden costs unforseen (And there always is a lot of those), administrative costs, implimentation costs (a HUGE number), the mess it's going to make trying to get everything around this entire country transfered over to that system most likely resulting in a really devastating drop in healthcare quality, etc etc etc.)

We allow this to happen we're treading on dangerous waters.
Haha, I did fast unthinking brain math lol. it is 12%, as simple as it is to get that numer right, I do that a lot. Take the first number out of ten, take the second number out of ten, YER WRONG!

I should slow down sometimes. Less coffee more waters!
Can any of the supporters of the new plans name any program that you give to people "for free" that is not totally abused and misused?
That is why it will not work.
I think finding reliable information is difficult on this subject. Actually any political subject in general seems to be so steeped in bias that its hard to seperate the fabrications from the fact.

I see major problems with what we have now, uninsured, insufficiently insured etc.

I don't know what the answer is. I do know this system isn't working. I am a small business owner, my healthcare is provided through,my wifes insurance because my options are poor at best. Prohibitively expensive and poor coverage being the reason I don't bother with my own, didn't like anything I found and my wifes company is only about 100 employees and the plan is much much better than anything I could find. In general its a problem being competitive hiring talent when healthcare is foremost in peoples minds, I can't offer it. Even if I could without a larger group plan, things like pre-existing conditions would keep me planted in one plan forever and may keep my future employees from benefitting from whatever I could offer..

The system we have now has allowed for astronomical individual costs for major and minor operations. One friend ,a discgolfer as well, shattered his hip in a single car accident involving some ice and a tree. He ended up at a teaching hospital that had some expertise in artifical hips, his condition wasn't really life threatening but fairly serious I suppose. 2 months he had to be in the Hospital, with 1700 a day room charges, a $2700 15 minute phone consultation with an expert from North Carolina. He gets an MRI 2 times yearly at like $3000, Xrays once a year, consulatations etc. Point is the sum total to date is something like $600,000 in billable. Point being that his 10% from that 2 month period put him in medical bankruptcy, and for those policies with a 750,000 cap, he's pretty much uninsurable. You cap out in one policy good luck ever being insured again.

I blame the system of profit allowing multiple hundred thousand dollar proceedures in the first place its way out of whack. Most of the time people don't have a choice but to get treated. Its a free market that isn't really full of choices for the consumer.
Everyone with a care about our Country read this.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_...

It's a direct link to the current healthcare bill President Obama wants us to push through ASAP. Straight from the Congressional website.

My issues really start to come to light on page 16 where you begin to realize that while given a choice, it really isn't a choice. It's a plan for take over while allowing them to say "We give you a choice.".

SEC. 102.
1 PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT
2 COVERAGE.
3 (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV
4 ERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of
5 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov
6 erage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health
7 insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance
8 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the
9 first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
10 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef
15 fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.
17 (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PER
18 MITTED.—Subparagraph (A) shall not affect
19 the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an
20 individual who is covered as of such first day.
21 (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR
22 CONDITIONS.—Subject to paragraph (3) and except
23 as required by law, the issuer does not change any
24 of its terms or conditions, including benefits and
25 cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day be
26 fore the first day of Y1.

After reading that I am confused on how that = choice rather than kill privatized insurance by attrition. But read it, it's a great read, it just keeps getting better and better from there. All 1017 pages of it.

Also of interest to you might be recent discovery that the rest of the world is currently looking at another solution rather than the US dollar as the standard currency. We have enough debt with other Countries they are seriously starting to realize the chances of our dollar being worth anything in the future are pretty slim. Our national deby pre Obama was unacceptible, post Obama it's disaster. Thanks for voting the guy into office folks, he just tossed a worlds supply of gasoline onto the smolder..

So it begins. Glad I own a farm......
"After reading that I am confused on how that = choice rather than kill privatized insurance by attrition
"
This seems to be a major part of the argument. Here is what I don't understand about that position. If you have a choice between the two, and its a free market economy, and you believe the governmental product to be vastly inferior to what private can offer, why would you be worried about private losing by attrition. In a free market economy the better product will win, People who try Governmental and are dissatisfied will return to private as long as there is a choice and there is a choice as far as I know. Those who are uninsured and finally get insurance aren't a loss for priate as they weren't paying private anyway.

If governmental demonstartes its clearly better and people flock to it and private insurance does fall are we to be concerned, We got what we wanted better care or equivalent but more affordable.

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