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Disc Golf in Canada is free and easy ......... kind of like our health care system.

Our Medicare system is just like a long straight pull down the middle ........ very effective and takes the worry and pain of being sick in Canada. Prior to 1963 we had a system like America. Private insurance and no insurance mostly people got sick and just had to pay a bill. Doctors never got fully paid for their services and monies were hard to collect. Since Medicare's inception everybody in the country is on the same premium, usually half paid by your employer. Everybody is covered. Emergency care is treated first, no one dies from lack of care and the care is wonderful. If you need a new knee and it's not emergent you wait a year. New heart valves right away. It's a wonderful way to live assured that you have coverage.
I had a recent conversation with an American doctor while cruising on the cruise ship to Alaska. I said why are you Yanks so afraid of Medicare. He said it was basic greed. That I didn't understand.

He said all the folks that have good health coverage now and have the where with all to pay for it, don't want the universal healthcare for all because it will take away resources from them. Doctors and nurses will be not so able to just look after their high priced needs. Just basic greed. As a proud Canadian one of about 88% that love the Canadian system I say Push On get the system that covers everyone.

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Read again my friend, if you read it in the first place. Here, I'll make it clearer.

We will be GRANDFATHERED into our CURRENT coverage, you WILL NOT be allowed to deviate from that coverage, If you do, you will have to take the Government option. If your children have GRANDFATHERED coverage they can remain on that coverage as long as it is offered, anyone not covered, loses their current coverage, or born AFTER year 1 of the passing of the bill will be FORCED to go to the government option. You have a choice to keep your current coverage and ONLY your current coverage, deviate from that in the least, straight to the Government option. There is NO WAY for the private insurers to win that battle. IF the bill passed the insurance companies would then be barred from future enrollments. How is that NOT kill by attrition? It's a smoke screen to make you feel like you have a choice. READ IT! READ READ READ.... Trust Obama now?

Reading comprehension FTW!

It's pretty clear, and that excerpt I posted above is directly and unmodified FROM THE BILL!

It's becoming increasingly clear people still want to debate without actually reading the bill and my arguments in relation to it. Read it, or leave this topic alone, it's obviously not important enough to you to completely understand what is going on.
Also note this little gem in the bill




5 (D) enable the real-time (or near real
6 time) determination of an individual’s financial
7 responsibility at the point of service and, to the
8 extent possible, prior to service, including
9 whether the individual is eligible for a specific
10 service with a specific physician at a specific fa
11cility, which may include utilization of a ma
12chine-readable health plan beneficiary identi
13fication card;

14 ‘‘(E) enable, where feasible, near real-time
15 adjudication of claims;

16 ‘‘(F) provide for timely acknowledgment,
17 response, and status reporting applicable to any
18 electronic transaction deemed appropriate by
19 the Secretary;"

They want near real time access to your assets and bank accounts to take back the monetary amount spent on services they weren't in full approval of. Oversimplification yes, but it is the gist of the situation. If they need to recoup costs for services they weren't in approval of, then how else are they going to get an electronic transaction for adjudication of claims from you??

Trust Obama now?

I can pull out nice tidbits such as this all day long. But I would really prefer not to. It take entirely too much of my time, and honestly doesn't help my mood at all. If you care about yourself, your country, and the future of your family and your country, read it yourself.
That section as I understand it grandfathers you in to a plan that doesn't meet the minimum standard or the new layout, For example all new policies have to be written with a minimum spectrum of options, or tiering. If you current plan does not match those new plans layout but you like it or its pricing then you may continue, as long as you want or as long as they offer it, but if you change you must change to a government plan, or private plan that meets the minimum government standard. Which is also how it was explained in Q&A with our local House Rep. My reading skills are fine please don't imply that they aren't particularily here. Private has to meet or exceed the minimum but can continue just as long as they want in the Private sector. More importantly you are free to choose any policy that meets the minimum standard.

Businesses may make that choice for you as they decide what the best option is for them (here you have a legitimate gripe), but they have five years grace before they have to offer a minimum standard or pay a penalty.

I agree with you last point though the vast majority of people haven't read the bill.
WOW, I can't belive you guys are still at it lol!! Pure and simple the current health care out there sucks ass. It needs to be changed. You said you have seen crappy treatment at the VA. Heck I've seen people DIE in the current one. People get treated and streeted with the min. of treatment possible. The current system is broken and needs to be fixed ASAP or more people will continue to die. It's a money driven health care system now and that's the bottom line. If you cost to much to get the proper care. You get dropped or propper care is refused so you die sooner and save those CEO's some money for their bonus!!
Hey Now,although the info/debate is interesting to read,we REALLY need to get back to the fundamental postings of DISC GOLF .Two separate country health systems,politics,etc.Let it die a nice political death and I'll see you on the fairway,hit chains.Peace
BAHHAAAAA! Q and A with our local house rep... Trust them, they are of course going to tell the truth, the government would never lie to you. Trust us, we'll answer your questions, don't read the bill ask us! Yes, I've seen commercials that might as well say that to me.

That's like calling the Obama appointed representatives to explain to me the ins and outs and answer the questions about the healthcare bill. Seriously. I called asked about how I get to keep my current coverage, they began to blow smoke up my backside, and I said

Me: "According to sections blaah blaaah blaaaah that is not what it says, explain that to me."
Her: "Well sir, that's not what it means."
Me: "But that is what it says."
Her: "Well that not what it means."
Me: "Do you wish me to read verbatim from the copy of the bill in front of me exactly what it says?"
Her: "No sir."
Me: "Would you please explain to me why what you are trying to tell me and what I am reading are two completely different things?" "Are the extra meanings you are trying to tell me are there supposed to somehow be implied?"
Her: "Sir, I don't know, I have a list of things in front of me that I am supposed to tell you when confronted with these issues."
Me: "You don't have an actual copy of the bill?"
Her: "No sir."
Me: "Then how are you supposed to accurately answer these questions to me when you can't even cross reference the same wording I see here in the bill."
Her: "I don't know sir."
Me: "Can you get someone who can?
Her: "....."

She hung up on me....... And unlike every other time I have been hung up on, that one felt strangely rewarding.

Keep listening to them and trusting their every word. That's exactly what they want.

Baaaaaaaaaa.....graze graze....baaaaaaaaa

The section dealing with Grandfathered coverage mentions nothing about minimum standards. It simply and plainy states the following. That's a way of twisting the sections dealing with standards for coverage from private insurance companies being set by the Government into a completely different section of the bill. AND if the standard are set by the Government how is that CHOICE???

These words VERBATIM!
does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED.—Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.
(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS.—Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.
Buy I bet it would be a devastating shock to actually find out how many people DIED in VA (Government run) hospitals because of inferior healthcare, difference is there, the doctor isn't liable for improper healthcare anymore, it's a tough shit to you family of the departed. Also note that the life insurace they sell soldiers is not payable if someone is killed in combat "Persons willingly volunteered to put themselves into harms way." It's only payable if it is an accidental death. Something they do not tell you when you agree to pay for the policy they offer you. You want these people in control of EVERYONES healthcare. Answer that!

In Atlanta I came across a disabled veteran, no legs, VA actually claimed that they had done all they could for him, his legs were the only things that were treatable. Well he has no legs, given 70% disability, the eqwuivalent of $790 a month to survive from that point forward, then proceeded to offer tricare $250 a month that he could use to get regular health care if needed, but nothing other than issues with the legs he doesn't have can be treated through his disability treatments in the VA hospitals.

The Terms acceptable coverage and grandfathered coverage are defined prior to that section, the application of what is grandfathered specifically is detailed in yet another section and a third term qualified is defined before that. they do not redefine them in each section.

Qualified new plans Private or Govt meet min requirements,

Acceptable Is grandfathered or Qualified.

Grandfathered your old plan as long as its available.
Let me get what you are saying straight.

I can enroll in a private healthcare plan with standards and controls set by the U.S. Government, and still pay taxes that will be used for Government healthcare in addition to paying for my private coverage?

OR, I can enroll in a Governments healthcare plan with standards and controls set by the U.S. Government?

Even if this were true, although according to the way the bil is stated it's not, how is that any better? Either way it's a take over. Either way big brother is in control. I am not really seeing a choice in there.
First I have no idea how much if any of your personal taxes would go to pay for the government plan since the bill has changed about a million times and is essentially fluid until it is passed. It may be that your premium and the employer contribution for those who do not offer private may cover what they are doing. I agree its likely that it won't but who knows.

The Government aims to set only the floor, the advantage to private is that the choice is theirs as to what they can get for a premium and premium services. If they can do better than the minimum and turn a profit they will if they can do it at competitive pricing or through added value they will so you still have choice as to what you can afford, what your employer can offer, and what extra you can get if you are willing to pay for it.

The Bill absolutely allows for it, but you have to combine all the relavent sections at once to fully flesh it out.
Every one of the bills thus far if passed would be by the constitution absolutely illegal. All relevant sections are contradictory and allows way too much interpretation by the legal system. Too many holes and wiggle room to screw everyone. And I deffinately do not want anything being fluid until it passes, I want to have the time to review the bills before it is passed. Every American should want to have the time to review the bill as it will be passed before it passes.

If the Government sets the standard the standards should be clearly laid out before it passes, they leave room to set whatever standards they want on private insurers. Who is to say they don't intend to set the bar so high the insurance companies can not match what they set as the standard and still operate?

It's a dangerous precedent. But in all honesty, it's not going to matter. Our dollar is tanking as we type. China is uncomfortable with the amount of debt we owe them. If the dollar world standard is changed from the dollar to something else the value of the dollar WILL drop a large amount. Before that happens a lot of people we owe money will attempt to cash in their dollar notes. We as a nation honestly do not have the money to pay them back, all those dollars Americans have been saving are worth nothing. Used to be that the US currency read X dollar amount is exchangable for X amount of Gold therefore making the dollar worth something, but not anymore, they don't say anything about being worth anything, they aren't really exchangable for anything if the dollar crashes you have a buncha worthless paper you can burn to keep warm. Seems to me our Government forsaw all of this coming and changed that for a reason. The entire nation will be too poor to seek or give healthcare anyway. But hey!!!! We will certainly all be equal!! Yaaaay! Then everyone can stop complaining that successful people are holding them back!! We're all poor!

Who will have the power? The Government whom controls a massive amount of gold that we no longer use as the standard to measure our currency, and can no longer trade it for that gold.

It was a brilliant plan, so many never saw this coming. And people called me a wierdo when I told them to watch out for it. Don't believe me? That's fine.
I need to correct the above.

was offered Tricare at the cost to him of $250 a month leaving him a disposable income of $540 a month to cover housing, food, transportation, replace old worn clothing, etc.

In Atlanta $540 a month wouldn't rent you a usable closet for a month.

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