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I have been kind of a student of learning what each of my discs is capable of. Basically I go by whether a disc is over to under stable and decide what I will be using it for. I understand how weight and speed effect a disc and try and master it from there.


Something happened a few monthes back while playing a round. On hole 13 at El Dorado in Long Beach, Ca, I hit an Ace with my Lat64 Opto Fuse. The ace was nice, and I enjoyed it like I should, but it was the distance (250') and the angle I had to put on the disc that got me thinking.


The Fuse is a turnover mid for sure. If I throw it straight about 15ft of the ground with about half power, it starts turning about 40ft out and does not fade back. If I throw the same apex and really put the power to it, it won't flip, but it will turn way to the right and gone. To hit the shot at El Do, I threw at half power and aimed about 40 feet left of the basket and threw it about 30ft up and let it turn into the basket. At that heigth it did fade a bit at the end and hit all chain.


This got me thinking, what other lines could I throw the fuse on. At full power on a 40ft+ apex, I get get the disc to turn about 50ft and get out to about 280ft. With a littl hyzer on the same apex i can coax about 300ft out of it. A little more hyzer and a little less heighth, I can get a straighter line, and so on and so on. Distance wasn't the only angles I was trying to achive, and I did find a bunch of other uses for it.


I am currently working on the same grouping of shots with my Star San Marino Roc. It is way more stable than the fuse, but not an overstable mid. I didn't think I could get a Roc out to 300+, but I've blown that away already, and on a usable angle of attack on fairly tight shots. It fades better at the end. It has a thinner rim so i can get a better snap on it. It skips better so I can bring it around from the right of objects and finish tighter to the pin.


I'm wondering if there are any stable drivers out there that people like me are working with that are getting similar results on. The Lat Havoc is working out some big flex shots for me, but I wish it where a little more stable so I didn't have to hit such a high apex to get it to come out of the turn at the end. Any thoughts out there?

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Not sure I entirely understand what u r asking..... If u r wondering about drivers that will have a big S flight then I will throw in my two cents/discs of the pro wraith and champ eagle. My pro wraith started off carving beautiful flex shots no matter how high I threw it. Tree between me and the basket I would throw directly at the tree and get a nice S out anywhere from 20 to 40 ft and back to center. The pro plastic beat in pretty quickly though and ended up turning over hard after about 2 months and it would rarely come back for me.... Probably some poor technique in there too. I don't hyzer flip to well so haven't even tried it w this disc. Bought a new star wraith and just not the same. Very overstable but still working it in.
My champ eagle is also great w flex shots. If I throw it off the tee hard I get the same results as I used to w my wraith but not as far. Out on the fairway I get a moderate flex out about 10 to 20 ft and back.

I have been experimenting with the Westside King lately and have found it to be quite understable. If you flip it, it will stay flipped but will go a very long ways. It is ideal for hyzer flip shots. I would love to try out the Westside Sword because it is supposed to be a bit more stable.


I am also sort of trying to figure out exactly what you are asking. Do you just want something that is more overstable than a Havoc? A lot of choices there, all varying by degree. A Pro Katana is somewhat overstable while the Star Katana is more overstable (unless you get a Lemon Lake). An Echo Star Katana is slightly less stable than a Star Katana. A Vulcan will go straight for a long ways and then fade. Boss, Katana, Wraith, Vulcan, King, Sword, Medusa. So many discs, so little time.

I agree the numbers are a good starting point, but what do they really mean and how are they calculated? My opinion is that they give a only a general overall flight profile of the disc. I never look for numbers when choosing a disc from my bag. The numbers don't mean anything to me except when I am thinking of purchasing a new disc. I also decide on each shot whether to use a "stable" "over stable", or "under stable"  as well as "driver" or "mid-range". I may be wrong, but I believe there are only four factors affecting the flight of any disc. First is the shape which is a constant. The second is the angle of release. The other two are velocity through the air and rotation (spin) both are variables depending on % power and snap upon release. Slow spin with high velocity will cause any disc to fade left. Excessive spin with slow velocity will cause even an over stable disc to turn over to the right.

Being able to manipulate the mixture of spin (snap) with velocity (% power) allows the thrower to accurately predict the flight path and vary the flight path to suit the situation. The trick is getting this in sync with the angle of release.

I recently purchased a San Marino Roc 180g and I have been experimenting with it on short range shots. It is very over stable due to it's heavy weight, but I can prolong the fade at the end of the flight by applying more snap. When I want more fade I retard my snap. As they say "It's all in the wrist" LOL.

Good luck with your experimenting and I enjoy reading your posts, very informative.

For the most part the course I play is in the open, but this weekend I played in the woods at a tournament. I noticed I was throwing the Fuse on 12-14 of the holes and doing well with it. Hyzer, anhyzer or straight it didn't make a difference, only thing keeping me throwing it on the rest was distance. The Vision is a driver that you can tweak like the Fuse almost fly the same. The Flow is more of my open field driver. Westside King is a nice driver too, hoping to find mine that I lost :(

Those numbers just don't seem to relate to reality at times. The Havoc and King have similar numbers but fly completely different for me. In the end the only way to know how a disc flies is to buy it and try it. If I don't like a certain disc I will either sell it or just give it away.


fuse is my sick hyzer flip disc. i throw it at max power at as close to a vertical hyzer as i can about 15 feet left of the target and it doesn't flip flat til like 100 feet out, cruises straight for a while, then finishes on the anhyzer line. i can get it out to 300. sickk!

as for the high bombing anhyzer lines you talked about, i prefer my sidewinder. obviously much different distance caliber than the fuse, but i haven't been able to find a disc that has enough understability to carry out there, but the stability to flex and fade back. it takes a lot of room with the sidewinder, but other discs (for me) either are too stable and don't flex at the proper time or dive too quickly. probably a comfort thing and my inability to get enough spin on overstable discs.

I kinda started figuring out the same types of things with my Comets lately. Got me into thinking and playing with my Slower, Understable drivers doing the same kinds of things. Visions, Cyclones, Impacts, Avenger SS's, etc. The Understable discs really are amazing in their versatility...
The Havoc did the same for me. I throw a Meteor and it sounds similar to what you are throwing. If I full pull the disc it's bye bye to the right for me, half pull a little fade to the right. A shorter anny was difficult for me to control early on in my game, so I learned forehand.

I left some of the specifics a little vague on purpose to promote more conversation than usual to get a wide variety of discs and shot types being discussed.


A couple of discs have jumped out at me already. The Eagle and the Pro Wraith sound like good candidates for what I'm looking for. I have throw both of these discs, but it was almost a year ago, and at the time they would have been hyzer line discs only for me. I have a feeling I would be able to carve several lines with these molds, especially that Eagle. It would hold a line at full power, but it is also slow enough that I could power it into a flex, yet stable enough to fight to fade. I throw forehand rollers and thumbers as well, it just might do the trick.


@Christian- Do you forehand the Eagle at all?

but Jim throws at high elevation right? Vulcan flips like hell in GA
Glad I could give u some ideas to kick around. I haven't thrown the eagle forehand... I only forehand in tight spots when I must....but it should b a good midrange forehand disc. I wouldn't drive w it forehand....banshee might b a better fairway forehand disc..... Depending on your skill w the forehand though the eagle could work.

I currently forehand Firebirds and Boss's. I also use a 153g Gummy flat top Teebird for forehanding in tight spots. If the Eagle can replace that and have other uses, then the gummy is out because it is so one dimensional for me. Thats what I'm talking about right there, a disc that can serve more than one function.



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