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my river is a gold line and it took FOREVER for it to actually become even the slightest bit flippy.. it still takes a lot to make it go right.
I recently got a 151 vip air King and OMG does this disc scream.. very long HUGE s-curves with almost no effort.
this one will probably take longer then since it has Opto mixed in. ;/
im using a 150g leapord to dump right..and its working perfect.
For a Great Mid-Range Turnover Disc , I use a slightly beat Dx Shark.
For Distance , I use a Slightly Beat Pro Starfire.
I like Fuses for mid-ranges, and Rivers for fairway drivers.