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I'm sure everyone would like to own a private course. Realistically, not counting land costs, how much does a 18 hole course with multiple concrete tees cost? Please include professional design fees, tee signs etc. Anyone with experience in this area?

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BS based on what? There are no other experts in the World on course design. It's not like there's a college to go to with disc golf design professors. We are the people who have studied it, developed the standards and have applied them the best we can do. Most of us are guys but it's apparent we have no market power based on your attitude regarding design quality. I always thought old boy networks prevented people from joining and yet our designer's group has always let anyone in. Sounds pretty inclusive and educational to raise the bar, doesn't it?

It's pretty sad considering that players spend hundreds of dollars on freakin' gobs of plastic and have no problem doing so. All of this investment can be wasted playing lesser quality course designs when just the 100 top users of a course could contribute $15 each, the cost of a quality disc, to pay for a better course design which pays back dividends year after year. But no, just do it on the cheap and get less than what's possible.

Some of us do disc golf related work, or try to do so, fulltime. If you come into work today and your boss or your clients said you don't have a job anymore because they found someone to do your job free, how would you feel about that?
I didn't say the course might not be "good." But I guarantee that I can improve any course in the world including every one of the courses I've designed or consulted on. You are apparently not aware of the things that can be done to make courses better. Many times the budget doesn't allow those changes or improvements. But then you would rather cast aspersions from afar rather than join and learn. Not everyone in the DGCD has those skills. It's caveat emptor just like any other endeavor.

For instance, I would say fewer than 30 courses have actually had their designs validated as having holes at the best possible lengths for a particular skill level. This is a no-brainer in ball golf design. But only a handful of our designers even know how to do it.
Some are better than others like any endeavor. Our group is constantly developing new things and we try to apply them when we have the opportunity. Remember that we only do what the client asks for or can afford even if we can do a variety of additional things like better maps or signs. Validation is a new concept that our designers have been learning. However, even without validation, many of our designers take care to design each set of tees for a specific skill level which few outside our group tend to do. Like I said, it's a no-brainer to do that in ball golf so that players have tees that challenge their specific skill level.
personally i can see both sides in this issue, i think it is a good thing to have someone experienced in laying out course designes involved in the proccess, heres a good example, dies hill park in dover ohio, my home course that just went in last year mainly happened do to bill griffeth the course designer who laid it out, us locals had approached the park about putting a course in for years but couldnt get anywere, bill came in had the credentials, feature benafitted and sold the park on it, now does that mean bills course layout is better than what you or i could do, its hard to say as everyone likes different things about each course they play, but i cant help but wonder would the course have ever been put in if not for bill, now as for the vollunteering part, on this perticular course, after it went in the park had limeted funds to do the teepads, the course was laid out with three tees per hole ( novice, amature and pro ) so this was going to be 36 pads totall and the club had decided thet we didnt just want any ole pads we wanted the trapazoide style which would cost even more, so i talked to the owner of the company i work for about donating the use of his equipment to prep the pads and got ok, and i lined up a profesional concrete finisher who gave me a good price, then as site coordinater for the company i work for, i approached the park about getting them done and got thier approval, the concrete finisher is billing the park directly and i have donated my time to do this in the interest of getting it done, so myself and my fellow disc golfers can enjoy it for years to come, there was some teepad placement changes we had to iron out first and we met with the designer and got his blessing even though a few of the changes he was not thrilled about, but as a club we came together and had a united view on the changes, the changes were compiled suggestions made by variouse players during league play thru the summer, and we took the ones that came up the most and decided those wopuld be the ones we would go with, so in the end bill was happy to approve what we had come up with, so i guess what i am saying is that probably in most cases there ends up being some proffesional as well as vollunteer work needed in putting in a great course, now thats not to say that one way is better than the other as i am sure sure thier are great examples of both vollunteer and proffesionally laid out courses out there, but i think both vollunteers and profesionals that help in designing and maintaining a course as well as the parks deserve respect and appreciation and when people work together like that a great course can be the outcome.
No question that much of the work still needs to be done by volunteers in our sport. The distinction I'm trying to make is that not all work involved can or should be done by just any volunteer. For example, clearing brush, spotting at events, shuffling leaderboard cards, lugging cement for tees or pins, checking scorecards don't require specialized skills. However, designing courses, being a "good" TD, web site design, publication design including tee signs, supervising tee pad installation are examples where an experienced person or professional are more appropriate whether they receive compensation or not.
Wow, we sure did take the long way around. As in my master plan, I would like to take 20-25 acres and put a course on it. I think it best to have a pro tell me where the pin and tee locations should be and which trees to save or remove. A consultation role is what I would be looking for with follow ups as the course progressed. Grunt work can be done by grunts (me) with help both payed and volunteered.
Any designer worth their salt will work with you to provide the type of design based on your goals. Is it for your skill level, for World Class players, for rec players or for several skill levels with multiple tees? If a designer "knows" what you need without asking, you may not have the right designer even if they are experienced. Here's the document that indicates what a course owner should be looking for in a designer, and by no means do they need to be DGCD members. The only thing someone can count on with a DGCD member is that at least they've been exposed to good design practices. Whether they follow them or not is up to the course owner to decide based on their resume and other clues:

Are there multiple tee pads at the IDGC Steady Ed course? I'm sure they exist in the original plan, but they are not shown on the tee signs. The lack of multiple tees is one of the draw backs of the IDGC. The three courses in place are not beginner friendly.
The Red tees have been marked on the Steady Ed for several years now but the funds haven't been available to install the cement pads there yet versus complete work on the other courses. The white tees will eventually be marked on the Jackson course. But some holes will be changed and the final routing has not been pinned down. The new Warner course will have some funky combination of some shorter tees and some holes with dual baskets where you can play either one.
Wow. You are so full of yourself it's not even funny. According to what you've said in this thread, only you and your elite friends know what's best for disc golf. Only your super-special club knows what a good disc golf course looks like, and I'm sure you'll clue us in if the price is right. It's not even the fact that you want to make a profit of of disc golf. It's your uppity attitude. For some reason you believe that volunteer work is inferior because your super-special club didn't make a profit. Volunteers are not the problem, you are the problem. Shame on you.

You don't care about disc golf. You care about money. It bothers you that volunteers will donate their time, which will lead to you losing profits. That is sad. Disc golf should never be a corporate thing. Most of us started playing disc golf because people like you weren't involved. Or so we thought.

You are everything that's wrong with disc golf, and I hope I never meet you.

Marc Hamlin #26596
Sorry you feel that way. After 8000 unpaid volunteer hours over 20 years with much of them involved with over 100 course installations now and still counting you've learned enough to start getting paid for things you continue to contribute of value to the disc golf experience of thousands across not just the U.S. but the World. If there's anything holding back disc golf, it's the entitled attitude of many who think disc golf should be free and other people should be happy to volunteer year after year on their behalf.

You think an investor looking to put in a ball golf course would look around for some local pros to do the design for them on the cheap or free? We have learned and developed design concepts and strategies even more sophisticated than ball golf in some design areas. They have their specialties in moving dirt, turf management, how the ball lands and rolls, trap positioning and shapes, etc. But in pure course design aspects, we're right there with some things the ball golf folks don't even need to consider like flight thru tree lined fairways. Some beginning disc golfers are so full of themselves as if they could design a good course once they've played a few and get some tips on the Internet. I'm saying they aren't respecting the work and experience that's really involved to do it right like many other professions that happen to have a trade school degree or more behind them.

It's too bad you don't know me personally since these words are lashing out more in frustration about the general lack of respect among beginners for the value of good course design skills than your shot at dissing me here. Many on here do know me personally and the work I've done with them, for them and sometimes coaching them with design help over the years. The rest of my career I'll hopefully be able to continue more design mentoring since many of you have asked me to stop by in my travels and check out your designs when I'm passing thru. I hope I'll be able to do more of that and spread the word.
About $ 1,000.00 to $ 1,800.00 per hole. This includes baskets and concrete teepads. ( Concrete teepads are expensive ).

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