The Community of Disc Golfers and About All Things Disc Golf
My mistake and a bigger DB...
This is a smattering of stuff that has been keeping me up at night…am I out of line?
Understand that our club president sent him an e-mail at 12AM the night of (about 2 hours
after the fact) and called him first thing in the morning. The club helps sponsor the league.
What would your reaction be?
Original stlouisdiscgolfclub.com post:
And after the club president talked
As I explained to Chris you guys
approached me with the offer I didn't ask you for it. I think it is really
unfair of you to expect me to give everything back especially when Chris had me
sign a paper stating that I was paid for the coupon so I couldn't go back on
the deal. As you stated JB is a public park but you then "suggest"
that I not show up there on anyday. If this is some sort of threat against my
person or my property I will immediately call the police if there is any hint
of trouble at JB park. I will be keeping this email just in case as evidence of
the threat if there is any trouble. Please cease to contact me further.
After a few testimonials
on my behalf, here is a reply…
And my final transmission…
Sometimes a mistake is made. Sometimes individuals need to step back and look
at it from a different point of view. We are a volunteer organization. I am
sorry that you saw it as an irreversible situation, when in fact it is nowhere
near this way. It only backs up the testimonies from several other,
non-involved, individuals that you sometimes rub people the wrong way. Maybe
you are what they say you are. Sorry to see you go. Have fun, buddy...I will
never contact you again. There are plenty of other courses for you to play. No
threats will EVER be issued, but your presence at JB will probably not be very
well received. I hope you enjoy your 6 discs and $71 enough to compensate for
your loss of St. Louis
disc golf as a fun and carefree activity.
P.S. "If this is some sort of threat against my person or my property I
will immediately call the police if there is any hint of trouble at JB park. I
will be keeping this email just in case as evidence of the threat if there is
any trouble." Do you honestly think
I would do anything remotely close to this? You must be a...
You made a mistake. The club that empowered you needs to absorb the cost of that mistake. I'm sorry and I'm sure that it made you sick and lose sleep. I'm sure I would have felt the same way, but contacting him in the first place... publicly at that was wrong. If you felt the need to talk to him at all about it (which I still think is a mistake) you should have spoken to him privately fully aware that he was completely entitled to say no. You shouldn't be shocked that he said no by the way.
Then I simply can't believe that you think it's right to black-ball him from leagues. On what grounds? You're not a true disc golf club if you do things like that. If you were or are a non-profit, you might be headed for legal trouble. In fact you might be in legal trouble already for implying that his presence would be unwelcome at the course. It should sounded like a threat to this outsider. What else would you call the sentence "your presence at JB will probably not be very well received."? What did you mean by that exactly?
So you try to take his fairly won prize away and then ban him from leagues and tell him that he is not on good terms with the locals. Sorry, you sound like your heart is in the right place with trying to help your local club, but YOU are the one out of line here. I may have been willing to compromise in the situation (though it would suck), but he had no obligation to do so.
Just a couple tid-bits of info before I move on and put the blunder behind me. First, the Doubles League is not a club run league. It is my league. The club merely helps out with the merchandise for the AM payouts - if you are a club member, your merchandise vouchers are "juiced" 25% by the club. If you are not a club member, then you don't get this "juice" and you lose out on some value. Being that is MY league, I have the full right to ban you from my league when I feel that you have done me wrong. This is the first situation that has ever warranted this type of reaction in the history of this league.
I did attempt to contact the individual privately before making any of this public. It appeared to me that he was not going to make any attempt to return the calls/e-mails so I made a post on the website (non-derogatory or defamatory in the slightest) simply explaining the situation and asking everyone for help in contacting the individual. Guess what - it worked. Someone else contacted him and he finally returned the call. This phone conversation is the entire reason that I then made things public - his side of the conversation was, simply put, f'ed up. He really didn't have an argument to defend his position, other than that he had talked to his minister and was told that he had no moral obligation to return the money and merchandise. Honestly, what person is going to go to a man of the cloth to discuss a disc golf related dispute. Total BS. Is this the best that he could come up with?
A couple facts about the coupon - the details of the coupon were posted at league central and on a tee-sign. It was a large 8.5" x 11" sign that was pretty hard to miss. It was even harder to mis-interpret. EVERYONE knew what the CTP was for - a 50% off coupon ONLY. He saw a window of opportunity when I was making the mistake and did nothing to correct my mistake. A normal, honest individual would not have tried to manipulate the situation, thay would have stopped my mistake from happening in the first place. The payout scene was a mad-house and I made an obvious mistake that didn't need to be taken advantage of. 99% of my leaguers would have helped me out...too bad the 1% won the CTP.
I only suggested that he be careful at JB because this course is the biggest "homie" course in St. Louis. The course is defended by its players quite vehemently. There is a very large core of regulars that play here all of the time, and I can't control what somebody else will do. I don't know how a warning could be considered legally improper. Everyone at JB knows how much time and effort I put into this league (and the STL disc golf club) and they take this kind of behavior just as personally as I do...if somebody attacks your brother, wouldn't you jump to his aid?
"So you try to take his fairly won prize away" This is the point. He was given $150 worth of cash/merch that he DID NOT fairly win. There was no cash value to the coupon at all, and he knew this without a doubt. I guess his minister believes that taking advantage of a situation has no moral implications and that sticking it to a not for profit (unless fund raising for the course is considered profit) organization is perfectly fine. His actions have defintely "black-balled" him from MY league...I don't allow thieves, period.
OK, I don't know either of you. Heck you are both probably good people (playing the % of disc golfers). All I can go by is what you post and it just comes off wrong...just saying. Also, I have a buddy who is waaaay religious and he consults with his "pastor" (not sure what you would call them) for EVERYTHING.
Heck, he may also think it's YOU that is trying to scew him? Having people call and bug him and banning him just seems kind of strong arming him too. I think you guys should sit down over a cup of coffee and try and figure out a fix.
Well I just hope you both can bury the hatchet.....
You gave him the loot, then made him sign a piece of paper saying such. As a rec player this was most likely his biggest win ever then the next day you say you made a mistake and want it back? You act like 71$ is a million that he should not have been able to spend guess what a stop at the gas station and mc donalds later he has 8$ left. As for the value of the discs is that M.S.R.P or the amount the club paid for them?
Regardless of anything you are responsible, unfortunately someone always is. Chalk it up as a loss dude and pay attention to what you are supposed to pay out. The poor dude that won was probably half in the bag and so toked to win he did not relize he was walking away with m,ore then he should have
I offered for him to keep all of the plastic and just give back the cash in the initial conversation. I felt this was more than generous (and more than 50%). He said no and was unable to give me a good reason (other than that his minister told him to say no).
Exactly, everybody makes mistakes and should be given a little leeway when they do happen. I tried to be fair and compromising and received no such return treatment. Bye Bye!
Greg,you really need to get this Hatred feeling out of your system.A " private" league is a subject all by itself,but "banning" and possible threat towards playing in a public park is another topic.Sounds like you and the "homies" would give anyone a hard time if one was not a "regular".That's one park I'll pass up.
Did you pay the rec depts any fee for holding your private league on public property?Was insurance bond taken out for such an event.Most Rec/Park depts ask for this in advance for any claims/injury to the public.
The matter of asking/seeking help from any clergy is one's own responsibility for handling a situation that one feels he/she needs help in/with.You, yourself went public after you needed help.What's the problem of someone seeking advice like you did on this site?
I'm glad you don't allow "thieves "in "your league", is everything else fair game? I hope not.Enjoy your private league game,but have signed vouchers next time so you are covered and not losing sleep.
Yes, I pay the STL County Parks Dept. to rent the course every week...it is reserved for the league. That said, I DO NOT tell anyone that they cannot play on the course even though it is technically reserved.
The homies/regulars have to defend the course from the Section 8 housing right next door on a regular basis. There are lots of shenanigans that you have to remain on your toes for (cars broken into, course vandalism, stolen discs, stolen bags, etc). We do not give non-regulars/visitors a hard time. Sorry you mis-interpreted this.
I do not disagree that consulting your clergy is not uncommon. I just wonder what kind of context the whole situation was presented in. Only feed him the info that you want to, and I am sure you can always get the answer that will make you feel righteous. That is my point of contention. How about I call the minister up and give him the whole story, and then we can get a fair asessment.
Sorry to take your time...
No need to apologize to me at least.You asked for some feedback from this community/family.
If fair assessment would let you sleep/clear up this matter,by all means talk to his clergy.Tell your side of the story,you might both get to see the light of day much clearer.Hope you take the right path,may you find the fairway. Sorry your dg course has "rough" edges,stay in bounds.The urban area is a changing course,some of the "burbs" are'nt all that safe either.May you find results that will settle the dilema.
Stress will kill anyone. Peace.
Maybe talk with one of the Basket manufactures and let them hear your story. They may even give you a Basket !!!!! :)
What Would Jesus Do?
Well, Jesus would've gotten an ace and multiplied the prize into K.C. Pro Aviars for everyone.