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It's so fast and over stable I can't get it to stay up long enough. Any tips? 

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I would definitely be interested in a lightweight Groove if you had one, I'd love to have one for tailwind drives.

A guy I talk with on the forums refers to the Groove as "Every Groove is a unique snowflake of suck..."  Some folks like it, but even the light ones are pretty speed stable until they get really broken in.  I was never interested enough to go that far with it.  Try the Monarch or the Roadrunner if you're looking for disc in this realm.

You must have gotten some strange Champs then as most others would say the the Pros are the flippers.

I have a Star Boss at 168 grams and it is Overstable !!!!
I have a 167 Star Boss and I can use it as my headwind disc.  It is more stable than my ESP Pred and Star Max.
The Grooves I have are 166 and 167. Any takers? Looking for Flows, Rivers, Vulcans and Star Roadrunners in 165-169.
Those lighter bosses are more overstable than the heavier ones. They were made from what Innova calls star light plastic and most are meat hooks.
Try a Destroyer. Same disc. Slower speed. easier to chuck.

I found one of these discs at De la veaga once. I'm pretty sure some poor soul bought it, and tested it out and just chucked it waaay too far. I found it about 100 feet past the basket in the rough brand new with no ink on it. It's not my favorite disc, but I think I'll like it more once I've broken it in better. I like it for long hyzer shots.

I have a few champ and star bosses.  They are my main distance driver when the line is right.  The comment about the lighter star bosses being more overstable then the rest is true.  I have found the star and champ to basically be the same disc otherwise.  I would say the Champ is slightly less stable once broken in, but the difference is minimal.  I throw forehand for max D and am consistently 370' to 385' with both my Champ and star bosses.  As already stated, for max D, I will put these forehands on a pretty good anhyzer, other wise you are going to get a huge spike hyzer.  HOWEVER, I can't throw a Boss backhand farther than 250' and it's ugly.


I throw thumbers up to 360-370ish from all the baseball in the past, and probably generate about the same power throwing forehand.  Reason I say this, is that should give you an indication of what kind of speed/power you need to generate to make the boss fly.  As everyone else has stated, the Boss sounds like it is too much disc for your throw at this point.  I would try something slower and more understable.  As mentioned, the Destroyer is about the same disc, just a tad slower and is less nose-angle sensitive.  Good luck.


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