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Just thought you might want to know the PDGA approved Innova's new creation yesterday.

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Does anyone know what type of plastice the first fun will come out in?
If a bike has 3 sprockets in front and 6 in the back its an 18-speed, right? That doesn't mean a 250 pound fat old man can get it going fast enough to ever use all 18 speeds.

Some time ago Dave Dunnipace posted on pdga.com that if you aren't already throwing 10 speed discs 400 feet you aren't going to get much more from an 11 speed disc.

Those extra gears are for guys like Lance Armstrong when they are coming down from altitude in the Pyrhenees Mountains. Fortunately, nine-speed novice and rec players don't read Ask Dave.
I look forward to it simply because its a new disc, however, I can not stand the boss. Got 2, threw them and some of my friends and the colors (swear) have a different flight characteristic. Cant dial them in so I stripped off the proto star, dyed them up and have them for sale or trade. Hopefully this Groove can produce predictable flight and if so, it may find a spot in my bag. We'll see.
sounds like it will be a nice disc to throw. Not sure if i need anymore drivers but i will still give it a go
I searched and found on another forum that it should be out sometime in Feb/March 2009. But this could be completely wrong too.

Sappydisc said:
When is this disc going to be available to buy?
Is every company like this? I've heard from some throwers that companies other than Innova are more consistent in their products. I haven't noticed anything myself, but what do other people think?

Mark Stephens said:
Different colors are made on different days. So, there if there is a change in ambient temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, etc you might see a difference in the disc. All of these (and more) affect the disc as it is being molded and then removed from the mold. Different colors flying differently is somewhat to be expected. You would like that difference to be minimal though.

Tino "SilverBack" Medina said:
I look forward to it simply because its a new disc, however, I can not stand the boss. Got 2, threw them and some of my friends and the colors (swear) have a different flight characteristic. Cant dial them in so I stripped off the proto star, dyed them up and have them for sale or trade. Hopefully this Groove can produce predictable flight and if so, it may find a spot in my bag. We'll see.
But that IS really typical of Innova. Buy two of the same Innovas and two of the same Discrafts and the Discrafts will more often than not have a more dependable, similar flight path. But, then again, I've never taken the time to break an Innova in. I just stop throwing them like Tino. Not worth the hassel to me.

Mark Stephens said:
Different colors are made on different days. So, there if there is a change in ambient temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, etc you might see a difference in the disc. All of these (and more) affect the disc as it is being molded and then removed from the mold. Different colors flying differently is somewhat to be expected. You would like that difference to be minimal though.

Tino "SilverBack" Medina said:
I look forward to it simply because its a new disc, however, I can not stand the boss. Got 2, threw them and some of my friends and the colors (swear) have a different flight characteristic. Cant dial them in so I stripped off the proto star, dyed them up and have them for sale or trade. Hopefully this Groove can produce predictable flight and if so, it may find a spot in my bag. We'll see.
I find that the faster discs seem to vary in characteristics more than the slower ones. All of my Rhynos seem to fly the same out of box. My TeeRexes though, I have really started to notice differences in two new ones.
So, based on the Turn and Fade numbers, since my Boss is a little more stable than I would like for a straight distance driver, I should like the Groove better, right?
I heard that the Groove will be avalable in lower weights as well. Any one know? I think that was one of my biggest problems with the Boss, was that it was only 173 and up, and I tend to throw 160's.

Keep Hucking
-Chris UDPGA# 0001
There are multiple parameters controlling disc shape consistency. Some of these attributes can be controlled by the manufacturer, but some are controlled by the material.

1. Material choice - If a disc maker uses materials from different sources, the resultant disc can change shape, therfore changing flight characteristics. Different types of plastic shrink differently.

2. Colorant - This is the most siginificant attribute to producing consistent discs when molding at different locations and production times. For example, red and blue pigments shrink much more than white. The differences in shrinkage can alter the shape (and flight) of production discs.

This is an extremely common problem when producing anything from plastic. Everything from bottles, caps, to flying discs will change size when produced in a variety of colors. A lot of manufacturers will have different molds specifically designed for certain colors. All of the mold designs are based on the material shrinkage performance.

A prime disc golf example is when a Pro Starfire has to be molded using the Starfire L mold, while Star plastic uses the traditional Starfire mold.

3. Molding conditions - Molding conditions include a large variety different conditions. Mold quality, mold age, location of molding (ambient conditions), machine operator, etc. All of these factors can affect material shrinkage...e.g. disc shape and flight characteristics.

In general, if you want more consistent flight from disc to disc, stay with a consistent color and buy mulitple discs at one time. I know that is hard to do when purchasing a new disc to try out, you don't want to buy three discs and not like it.

One of the joys in this game (to me) is to learn the differences between discs and how they fly. I do not blame the different companies for their product philosophy, I accept it and learn from each of them.


Griff said:
But that IS really typical of Innova. Buy two of the same Innovas and two of the same Discrafts and the Discrafts will more often than not have a more dependable, similar flight path. But, then again, I've never taken the time to break an Innova in. I just stop throwing them like Tino. Not worth the hassel to me.

Mark Stephens said:
Different colors are made on different days. So, there if there is a change in ambient temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, etc you might see a difference in the disc. All of these (and more) affect the disc as it is being molded and then removed from the mold. Different colors flying differently is somewhat to be expected. You would like that difference to be minimal though.

Tino "SilverBack" Medina said:
I look forward to it simply because its a new disc, however, I can not stand the boss. Got 2, threw them and some of my friends and the colors (swear) have a different flight characteristic. Cant dial them in so I stripped off the proto star, dyed them up and have them for sale or trade. Hopefully this Groove can produce predictable flight and if so, it may find a spot in my bag. We'll see.
Its looking like a superfast Valk.

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