Is 2 Miles 2 Long?

We've developed a temp 18-hole Lakeshore Gold Course that will be marked on this Saturday only - http://www.discgolfersr.us/events/lakeshore-gold-throw-your-arm - for fun play to see how it works out, with a random draw for prizes for those who throw the entire thing. By combining some holes and moving some tees, we've got 18 holes that total 10,680 feet in length. That's two miles of throwing distance.

Is that too long? Is it any fun to have a 1,340-foot hole that a red level player might take 10 throws to complete?

Finally, the updated map and scorecard!

[Rescue]

Disc golf needs a "Tiger proof" couse. With the techno factor and people throwing further. It sounds fine. Maybe disc golf should take a page from ball golf and have multiple tee pads (blue, white, and red or Pro, Am, and Rec) But 2 mlies should be fine.

[Larry Mann I am]

Sounds like desperate measures to put something in that is better than what you had. Do all your courses suck so bad that you're needing a 2 mi course. I guess 54 throws aren't enough to get you warmed up. I think there is some deranged thinking going on here. Lets see... If I can't win on a short course lets make it longer- more throws = more chances. Sounds to me that very few good par 3's are being designed now days.

[Wicked Dyes]

Its not like its any longer than the original 28 holes it just has 18 instead of 28 holes.

[Ben Calhoun]

That's a pretty mindless reply Larry. It's not even a tournament, there's zero competition going on- no one's trying to win anything but free gift certificates. It's just for fun. If you have a weak arm you need not play but it's fun anyways. Just because you can throw far doesn't mean you can keep it towards the target, in-bounds, and make a putt.

[The FORCE]

WOW. Do you have any idea what kind of courses we have here in Michigan? Have you even looked at The Ponds course at Lakeshore? The course was designed by some long-time disc golfers who have true love for the sport. The GOLD layout, as stated in the post, is for fun! The 24 hole layout at the ponds is a ton of fun to play. It is a high quality course with great maintenance and an on-site Disc Golf Pro Shop. I would say that The Ponds definitely does not suck, nor do the surrounding 25-30 courses in the Ann Arbor-Ypsilanti area. Where are you from that you think more throws=more "chances"? If you were to say more chances to screw up your shot, I would agree. But more chances, as you imply, to create a larger margin of victory, is just ridiculous. You are obviously just upset that you don't live in Michigan, the land of the best disc golf scene in the world, the best disc golfers in the world, and the place that has the most fun in the world. You should buy some Scott Stokely videos. Good luck out there with your weenie-arm Larry.

[Jay Dub]

I think this would be fun if the layout of the land allows for a natural, or close to natural, 2 mile long course. If it's just adding distance for the sake of saying it's 2 miles long then I would think, for me anyway, it would become boring chucking long drive after long drive.

[Terry "the Pirate" Calhoun]

Well, that's what we want to find out on Saturday; what the experience is like for people :)

[denny ritner]

www.waydowndisc.com/etherbinge/food_gatherer%27s_open.htm

check out this blast from the past. i enjoyed playing that day with you, terry. if i remember correctly, you were a bit hesitant about the concept before the round, but said you were pleasantly surprised after.

mark, i'd love to here your recollections of that day as well.

golf course type courses have lots to offer us. i particularly enjoy the low-schule factor. i hate having to hack through thick stuff and lose discs when you know you were within 10 ft. of where it went. it's also fun to have a cart on occasion, etc., etc.

many times, however, it's very difficult to design a good track with insufficient natural hazards. the yellow rope route is one way to go, but not practical for general play or small events, look at that army they need to get winthrop ready each fall.

we used to have the world's longest course down here at the sarasota golf club at over 13,000+. the course ended up getting pulled, despite having a strong local player base, because it was too long and wide open, even from the "short" 10,000+ tees. the sad part was that there were many opportunities to make that course shorter and more technical, but reese has a hard time letting go of his biases, partly because he can throw 450+.

although i didn't attend, i've heard that the kc worlds this year were strongly biased towards power above everything else. maybe avery would have won on any set of courses, but we'll never know.

BOTTOM LINE: i wholeheartedly agree with the colored tee comment. i think having multiple tees that provide a variety of standardized skill levels is an important feature for courses. even if they don't fit the budget initially, design for multiple tees and install them from the shortest to the longest as the funds become available. also, designers need to utilize the color standards appropriately so that players can go anywhere and know which tees to use. the following document is EXTREMELY useful:

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PDGASkillGuides2009.pdf

[Chuck Kennedy]

One of the things that those of us who have designed and studied player's attitudes toward really long courses is that they are more fun to play if there are at least 6-7 par 3s in the mix that can be 2'd. Doesn't matter how many par 4s, 5s or even 6s on the layout as long as you have at least 6 par 3s. The Winthrop Gold course at 10,000 feet still has 7 gold level par 3s.

The thinking on this has a few angles. Par 3s in DG have many more design options and variety than in BG with left curves, right curves, straight, uphill, downhill, tight, open, etc. We also have the ability to ace more often so the joy of buzzing the basket is much more common than skirting the hole in BG from the tee. If our par 3s are designed well, a player at that level will birdie about 1/3 of the time. So, with six twoable holes on a layout, the player has an average chance to normally card two 2s in the round. There's a "mental health" issue that relates to fun that's more ingrained in our sport than in BG where 2s are much less common.

So, you could have all kinds of par 5s or 6s where players take 7s, 8s or 9s and it won't bother them as much as not getting a single 2 in a round. Go crazy creating courses having a par greater than 70. But the suggestion from our experienced gold level designers is to just try and get there with higher pars on the other 12 holes besides the 6 par 3s that are the best you can design.

[Terry "the Pirate" Calhoun]

Well, there is a bonus 2 thrown in there at Hole 14 (although the OB sand trap can blo that up).

I agree. I only had the idea for this a week ago and it's pretty hastily thrown together. There probably should be a few more holes with potential (lucky) 2s.

This is only for one fun day. By collecting the scorecards, with names and player expertise levels noted, we'll be able to do some tweaking for score variation and maybe use this, or part of it, for some future big-time tournament.

We've got 28 blue/white holes so far and are just tapping into the potential of the woods to the South, and once you punch through the woods there is some semi-open area and lake front, with a looong peninsula that sticks out into the lake and is long enough - and just wide enough - to run maybe three holes out and three holes back in.

Such a fun piece of property to play with!

[Ben Calhoun]

what's wrong with a course for big arms anyways? we have a right to compete against each other as big arms on a course set up for us. this is just for fun. I enjoy ripping endless drives even in the open. that's what this is for. free. win stuff. don't play if u don't want no big loss.

[AK Discer]

I agree, I really like throwing long courses sometimes. We have 9 hole course that is located on ball golf course and the one of the holes is over 1000'. Throwing long courses (i think) helps with developing a long and accurate drive. Plus it is nice to watch a disc fly and glide for such a long time...is there anything more beautiful?