Is this disc OB??

The pond is OB... where exactly does it start?

[Jim Coonradt]

In a tourney you would have to get an official. The group can not make such calls in tournament play.

[Brandon Swanson]

Sure they can, and do all the time. Officials are not often present.

[Jim Coonradt]

So what prevents the group making the wrong call? Do you play it two ways and then ask later. I thought you always had to get an official?

[skinner]

Yes, play both lies...

Take a provisional and play both the OB and IB versions of the lie...take it too the TD after the round, they decide at that point...

When in doubt, play a provisional...

[Brandon Swanson]

No need to play a provisional here as either way if it's in or out, the player still gets one meter of relief perpendicular to the OB line (which may be difficult locate!). So you'd just maybe mark the hole on the card and then bring it up afterward with the TD...only if there is disagreement in the group where a majority of the players cannot agree on the in/out status of the disc. If the player is the minority and does agree, then they bring it up with the TD afterward.

[Ben Calhoun]

Except the line where 1 meter can be played from could be different by a few inches, allowing for a different lie (be it 3 inches, still, different).

[Brandon Swanson]

Yeah, I was thinking about mentioning the situation where they don't agree on where the line is to take a meter from. I guess that's important if there's a region that's 10 meter wide that players cannot agree upon if the whole zone is in or out.

[Brandon Swanson]

Hey Jim, here's the language from Rule 803.09 D:

D. If the in-bounds status of a disc
is uncertain, either a majority of the
group or an offi cial shall make the
determination.

So, first line is for the group to come to a majority consensus. Next is to find an official nearby, if one isn't present, if applicable, play a provisional and bring it up to the TD afterward. In this case, the lie should be the same and you wouldn't use a provisional.

It's a good question though... "What prevents a group making the wrong call?" This also happens all the time when players don't know all the rules (and it's rare you'll find someone who has them ALL memorized). I carry a rulebook in my bag in plastic. It has settled many a dispute peacably. I played a tourney the first year of my playing where I threw OB and the group made the wrong call on where it should be marked. An official even came over to say that we were wrong in where it should be marked, but another guy in my group was SO SURE that he was right about the rule that the official balked and said, well I guess if that's the majority decision of your group go ahead. I was too new to know what was going on certainly, but it was the wrong call. So good question. All of us tournament players have a responsibility to know the rules as best we can. Everyone should have a rulebook tucked in their bag.

[Charles Isaac]

Why not double throw it both in and out of bounds. Take a couple of pictures and let the judge see it.
The basic rule is that it goes to the group. The only problem is when the group rules against the thrower.

Benefit of doubt goes to the thrower and I think this looks clearly in bounds and gets either 1 meter in or casual relief.

[Brandon Swanson]

Taking a picture with a phone camera or the like is actually a great idea if there's a disagreement against the thrower.

[The FORCE]

Yeah the players CAN make "such" calls in tournament play. Clearly you didn't read a word Ben wrote.

[Ryan Rios]

I'm still waiting to hear how the rule changed???