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The pond is OB... where exactly does it start?

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Yes, play both lies...

Take a provisional and play both the OB and IB versions of the lie...take it too the TD after the round, they decide at that point...

When in doubt, play a provisional...
Thats the silliest thing I've ever heard. Amateurs are funny. The disc is definitely in bounds.
I'm still waiting to hear how the rule changed???
It's a close one...Looks OB to me. Here's what I think.. the whether or not the group declares it "in" or "out", the player still gets up to a meter relief on a line perpendicular to the ob line.( if the group agrees it's in then there should be no question that the disc is within a meter of being ob) So making the player play from there..or forcing the unplayable lie call...which is at the sole discretion of the player who threw the disc anyway...is the wrong call. It's either in or out...that's the question.

Unless the muddy area around the pond was declared casual before the round or is a commonly known aspect of the course rule/design, then determining on the fly that it is casual would be, in my opinion, the wrong call too.
in Lumberton, we play around two lakes and a canal surrounding two sides of the course. We have alot of experience with these calls. lol. The first photo is not very good but in the second, you can see the "water line" and that should be what is used for O.B.. The disc is O.B.! yes the nose in under water, and the other edge looks to be supported in air, and hanging over mud, but that is muddy water, not just mud, meaning the disc is surrounded by water--meaning O.B..
Why not double throw it both in and out of bounds. Take a couple of pictures and let the judge see it.
The basic rule is that it goes to the group. The only problem is when the group rules against the thrower.

Benefit of doubt goes to the thrower and I think this looks clearly in bounds and gets either 1 meter in or casual relief.
No need to play a provisional here as either way if it's in or out, the player still gets one meter of relief perpendicular to the OB line (which may be difficult locate!). So you'd just maybe mark the hole on the card and then bring it up afterward with the TD...only if there is disagreement in the group where a majority of the players cannot agree on the in/out status of the disc. If the player is the minority and does agree, then they bring it up with the TD afterward.
Except the line where 1 meter can be played from could be different by a few inches, allowing for a different lie (be it 3 inches, still, different).
Hey Jim, here's the language from Rule 803.09 D:

D. If the in-bounds status of a disc
is uncertain, either a majority of the
group or an offi cial shall make the

So, first line is for the group to come to a majority consensus. Next is to find an official nearby, if one isn't present, if applicable, play a provisional and bring it up to the TD afterward. In this case, the lie should be the same and you wouldn't use a provisional.

It's a good question though... "What prevents a group making the wrong call?" This also happens all the time when players don't know all the rules (and it's rare you'll find someone who has them ALL memorized). I carry a rulebook in my bag in plastic. It has settled many a dispute peacably. I played a tourney the first year of my playing where I threw OB and the group made the wrong call on where it should be marked. An official even came over to say that we were wrong in where it should be marked, but another guy in my group was SO SURE that he was right about the rule that the official balked and said, well I guess if that's the majority decision of your group go ahead. I was too new to know what was going on certainly, but it was the wrong call. So good question. All of us tournament players have a responsibility to know the rules as best we can. Everyone should have a rulebook tucked in their bag.
803.09A. A disc shall be considered out-ofbounds
only when it comes to rest and it
is CLEARLY and COMPLETELY surrounded by
the out-of-bounds area. (capslock added for emphasis)

This lie satisfies neither of those stipulations set forth in the rules. You might have your opinion about the disc being COMPLETELY surrounded by WATER (and I don't think mud that is pretty clearly protruding ABOVE the water line counts), but since the majority of people here so far say in bounds, there's no way you can argue that the disc is CLEARLY OB.
Taking a picture with a phone camera or the like is actually a great idea if there's a disagreement against the thrower.

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