The Community of Disc Golfers and About All Things Disc Golf
Ok, this one is going to chap a lot of people, but if we can have a civil discussuion and just present the facts we can get through it. I really want to know, so don't think I'm just being an idiot, although I will be playing the antagonist in this disccission.
Here it is: Why is it that so many people recommend to new players that they use Putters and Mids to learn with? We have all heard some form of the statement, "Go learn to throw your putter 300 feet and then you'll understand how to throw", or some varieant on this.
I call BULLSH*T!
I think what you'll learn is how to throw your putter 300 feet.
I think a more well rounded approach to the game, learning to throw all discs and understanding the numbers and controlling your plastic purchases is a better way to go. Learning the different grips, reach back, runup, keeping things flat and straight is a better approach.
OK GUYS, KILL IT!
I only read about of the comments because while this is a pretty good subject matter most of you rarely make orignal points so i apologize ahead of time if i am saying the same thing as some one else. I think choosing the speed of the disc is not as important as it feels in your (beginners and experienced player selecting a new mold to learn). Focus on any shot or throw outside of casual or competitive play is going to improve your overal game in the long run. BUT THE MOST EMPOWERING skill to improve your game is manipulate "understable" discs.
Heres something original "Go manipulate yourself freak" No one wants to read that your a naysayer hater.
This is still the best point made on this discussion. It's the only comment that no one will contend. THE MOST EMPOWERING skill to improve your game is manipulating "understable" discs. basically jedi skills
this is the truth behind the "old-wives-tale" that claims that throwing mids and putters will make you a pro. the rest of the debate is disc golfers making fair points but they are all missing the point of the actual discussion
I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that new players should start and learn with putters and mids before graduating to drivers. But it's not for the sake of limiting the player and not allowing them to be well rounded. It's because putters and mids are typically slow flyers that require proper technique in order to maximize their effectiveness and distance. If you can throw a putter 200-250, you have the basic proper technique needed to throw a driver 350-400+. It's not an exact 1 to 1 transition, but the elements are there to build upon. Applying techniques learned and honed throwing high speed discs don't necessarily translate down the speed scale as well as techniques learned on low speed discs translating up the speed scale.
The other reason I recommend learning on putters and mids...that's what 75% of the game is. If you are a player who can throw a putter up to 200 feet, and a midrange between 250-300, then you can play and play very well on a huge number of disc golf courses with little else. Every hole in disc golf requires one to putt (barring a hole in one). Every hole require one to drive/approach from somewhere under 200 feet. But not every hole, probably not even half the holes you see, will require a 300-350+ foot throw. So why not first master the discs designed specifically for the shots you will encounter the most, then move on to the more specialized and infrequent shots later?
This is the same reason I tell people to work more on putting from 20 feet and in, and less time practicing to break the 400-450-500 foot barriers on their drives. On any given round at any given course, you're going to encounter more putts in the 15-25 foot range than you will 350+ foot big ripping drives.
I would contend that not only are the grips completely different, but the angle of attack for putters and midranges being used as drivers is such that it is detrimental to learning much of anything about drivers at all. If I used the grip that I use on Putters and Mids and put the height under a driver that I do on thin rimmed discs i would stall discs badly and get frustrated quickly.
As an experienced player who has disced down for a couple of months, what I learned was how to throw my slower discs farther. Keep in mind, that in order to get slower discs to go farther, you will end up putting a lot of height on them and be picking some different lines. When I converted back to using drivers I had all kinds of nose up issues. It took about a month to get things completely fixed.
I practice a complete game and play a complete game, otherwise thing go to crap.
I've taught a lot of people the game over the last 10-12 years. One thing I've found to be immutably consistent with every newish player I've encountered...take a driver out of their hands, doesn't matter if it's a high speed big rim driver like a Boss or Nuke or a fairway driver like a Leopard or Teebird, and replace it with a stable to understable mid range like a Stingray or a Shark or a Buzzz, and they're outthrowing their previous max distances within a few holes as well as being more accurate when they do. It never fails. Then they go back to the drivers they started with and find they're throwing them farther than before.
I also have to stress that what has to go hand in hand with these techniques is having the right discs in your hand when you use them. Of course you're not going to throw a Destroyer like you do a Stingray or an Aviar and get good results. By no means am I advocating not "practicing a complete game to play a complete game". I'm simply saying the process by which one learns is most efficient if you start at the bottom of the speed scale and work your way up than if you do it in reverse.
As an experienced player myself, I can say without reservation that the best thing I did for my game was to completely abandon my drivers for a few months and rebuild my game around my mids and putters. I unlearned some bad habits and learned some good ones. And my scores dropped and got far more consistent as a result. And if I get into a slump, the quickest fix is to leave the drivers in the car and play a round or two with just mids and putters. They're just not as forgiving, so when I've got a hitch or a flaw in my technique, it shows up quicker and more obviously when I'm throwing a Buzzz than when I'm throwing a Teebird. Doesn't mean I don't put the drivers right back in and play with them when I figure things out.
And we are talking about learning to play here, right? Not how to play the game forever and ever. In no way am I advocating that players never pick up a driver or use a driver in their lives. I'm talking about where players should start their journey of learning how to play the game well, not where they should end it.
"I'm simply saying the process by which one learns is most efficient if you start at the bottom of the speed scale and work your way up than if you do it in reverse."
So start with easy stuff at the bottom and within a few holes they will be more accurate and throwing farther than if they used a driver
" And if I get into a slump, the quickest fix is to leave the drivers in the car and play a round or two with just mids and putters. They're just not as forgiving, so when I've got a hitch or a flaw in my technique, it shows up quicker and more obviously when I'm throwing a Buzzz than when I'm throwing a Teebird."
We encourage new players to throw putters and mids because they're easier to grip, get up to speed, and they stay in the fairway easier. Yet your Buzzz is harder to throw than your Teebird. Is that really what you meant to say. So which is it, new players should throw mids because they are easier to start with, or because it will show form flaws. Or do you have a magic Buzz.
I thinks people have got so used to saying this stuff, and it kinda sounds logical, that its the first thing that comes outta their mouth. I think it stems from a certain nepotism that seems to run rampent amongst disc golfers. They don't want the game to grow, they don't want crowded courses, and they certainly don't want anyone to throw further or better than they do.
We call it discing down, and it sounds cool and mystical, almost like a secret, like we are going to be the best thing since sliced bread if we just start this way. In reality, you'll just get frustrated, look silly playing with your buddies, and man are you going to really be frustrated when you start learning drivers.
Lets keep it real, if you are having trouble driving, then work with your drivers. If they keep going left and you are throwing flat, put the Destroyer away. GOOD FORM AND GOOD DISC SELECTION IS THE TRUTH.
So, all of you pro-mid/putter people; Which is it: throw mids because they're easier or because they're harder. Let's make a decision here.
I'm with Dookville on this one. I'm not buying it. I too think that people just repeat this stuff so much that they believe it to be true.
Good technique does not depend on plastic. Good technique depends on good technique. And good disc selection will come after a player learns about different discs and their different flight paths.
If there was any one disc that I would recommend to a beginner it would be a Sidewinder. Easy to throw and with good technique it will go a long ways.
In what world is throwing a Buzzz straight and true harder than doing so with a Teebird? When I say they're not as forgiving, I don't mean they're harder to throw. I mean that when you overtorque it (Off Axis Torque) and turn it over, it does so because you made an error and you readily recognize it because midranges tend to go where you throw it. If you do the same thing with a driver, the disc is more apt to counter the OAT (especially if it is an overstable one) and mask the flaw in the technique. A Buzzz won't mask the flaw as much...it doesn't "forgive" the flaw as much, making it easier to diganose and fix.
But I get it. You didn't start this thread to have a "civil" or intelligent discussion about the topic or to let folks "present the facts". You don't want to be convinced of anything or helped to better understand a concept. You just wanted to start a fight. Sorry I even bothered.
Maybe things would stay civil, but insults like this seem to always come out.
Quote: from JC
"I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that new players should start and learn with putters and mids before graduating to drivers."
People don't want to be labelled, they don't want to be limited, and they certainly don't want to be treated like children that need to graduate from little discs before they can play with manly ones. GOT IT!!!
Even if you just showed a little respect, I would only be half as upset and you woulnd't be feeling butt hurt.