The Community of Disc Golfers and About All Things Disc Golf
Ok, this one is going to chap a lot of people, but if we can have a civil discussuion and just present the facts we can get through it. I really want to know, so don't think I'm just being an idiot, although I will be playing the antagonist in this disccission.
Here it is: Why is it that so many people recommend to new players that they use Putters and Mids to learn with? We have all heard some form of the statement, "Go learn to throw your putter 300 feet and then you'll understand how to throw", or some varieant on this.
I call BULLSH*T!
I think what you'll learn is how to throw your putter 300 feet.
I think a more well rounded approach to the game, learning to throw all discs and understanding the numbers and controlling your plastic purchases is a better way to go. Learning the different grips, reach back, runup, keeping things flat and straight is a better approach.
OK GUYS, KILL IT!
I think that Slower Speed Discs (Putter/Mids) are EASIER for someone JUST STARTING OUT to throw and get Results from. The Slower the Disc Speed, the Easier it is to throw for people that have Not learned anything about the Technique aspect yet.
I am with DOOK on the whole "Learn to throw your Putter 300ft" thing. There are MANY other discs I would rather learn to throw a 300ft. shot with. I think its pretty pointless to learn something just to say you can, but that's just me.
Now, Dookie gets 20 minutes of Table Time for starting fights..... :)
I have learned to get my putter pretty close to 300', but if I put that much height on a River the dang thing would look like a boat flare. Also, I am dropping a nut to get the putter out that far and my form breaks down. Probably 275' is a comfortable strong limit, 250' is a really accurate solid distance for me. I feel good with that.
I CAN get my putter (R-Pro XD) out to 300ft. too, but as Your saying, my form breaks down, I am NOT accurate, and I never feel Comfortable doing it. That is why there are Other Discs. In ball golf, they don't teach people to Drive the Ball 300 Yards with a PUTTER before they can use a Driver. That's Stupid.
There are different tools for different Jobs. If I sound like I am combating you, I am not Dook. I Agree with you... Lol.
Nothin but love for you Jeff.
You know this all stems from a handful of guys on DGCR and the thread "Discing Down Adventure". There is a lot of merit to using mids and putters to further develop ones skills. It is just more of an advanced usage for those that have been playing for a while. The grips are so different that in the beginning trying to limit somebody to a thin rimmed disc and then expect them to make the transition could be disaterious. Plus the frustration of trying to get mids out far enough to play with your buddies while they are using drivers could push people outta the sport.
Also, they never actually stopped using drivers, they just limited it to TeeBird and down. For some reason it grew into everyone talking about only throwing putters and mids really far before stepping up to a driver, exclusively. Funny how a RUMOR got adapted into a new player training philosophy.
Mid-Range and Putters are great training tools for your game. Experiment and see what is right for you !
I think the advice to learn with a mid or putter is at the extreme end of most often given, least often heeded. Therefore very few players are qualified to comment on the wisdom of that advice.
My game improved when I learned how to drive with a putter on the short holes. My wife's game improved a lot when she spent a season just throwing Comets and Strati. I think Brett Comincioli spent some time just throwing putters and learned quite a bit from it.
Your results may vary.
I'm stumped, what's the "*" mean? lol!
I agree, but for a diff reason. I found that you had to have some what of a game before you could throw or a least understand what mids and putters are made for. For instance, I was given a Roc when I first started and I hated the dang thing! Heck I hated all mids and couldn't see a use for them. It wasn't until I had a better concept of what discs do and how to throw them. It was then when I finally understand the beauty of the Roc and Buzzz.
As for drivers, I think it's more of the discs "speed" rating that's important. I see no reason a newb shouldn't throw a Teebird or Leopard to start off with. They are not that far off from todays mids in the speed dept. So for me, it's the mids that are harder to learn in the begining, because they require a solid technique in order to throw them well. Sure drivers hyzer out and then dive into the ground, but they are more forgiving than trying to crush a mid or putter imo.
There are many different ways to learn things. I would recommend throwing only drivers as a way to learn. You will learn about speed and distance and how to control things. Drivers aren't just about bombing one out there. They can be used for shape shots and in windy conditions as well. Overall, it really comes down to understanding all of the discs in your bag and what are their full capabilities.
I think the best advice ignores the category of the disc and focuses on the stability of the disc. I am fairly certain that the mids and putters crowd are giving their advice to keep new players from developing terrible form as a result of OATing really fast and overstable plastic.
The advice I get from my local pro (1025 rated) is that I should throw discs that fly the way I need them to when I employ what he calls a full golf swing--meaning I am under control, my arm accelerates through the hit, and I follow through on an even plane. For me, really overstable discs are meat hooks when I throw that way. I can make a Destroyer go 325', but I have to throw a really high and funky flex shot to make it happen. I can throw a Leopard 325' by using a controlled, smooth swing. Doing the later took me breaking a lot of bad habits I formed while doing the former.
So, if beginners can make a driver fly the way it is intended while employing good technique, then I think by all means they should use drivers. However, I think the best advice that one can give to a beginner, who is committed to learning the game properly, is to start with understable plastic and learn how to shape lines and swing smoothly.
Another thing to consider is the fact that XDs were once known as long distance drivers. Today's fairway driver was yesterday's distance bomber. So, start understable and throw the slowest disc that can get there and stay there. Oh, and don't rely on there being much consistency in plastic, molds, numbers, or descriptions. That is all marketing. Throw a Skeeter. That is all.
Some GREAT points Here, Justin. I agree with you, too.
Jim, I Personally think that the Approach is something that can be Worked up too. Most people that are just starting out have a Hard time finding their Rhythm. I have played a Few Times with a guy that just never could get an approach down, partially because of injury. He practiced FORM AND Technique over Approach and now throws 450 feet Plus with One Step and 400 feet plus standing still....
I don't go to quite such an extreme. I'd also recommend at least one fairway driver. An understable fairway driver such as the Leopard, XL or River is a good place to start for most people.
A point possibly worth considering: If you don't have anyone or any internets to teach you, a midrange can be a good teacher. It is much more likely to go straight or anny for a weak arm, thus teaching the new, ignorant player about shaping different lines and releases.
If you are a dilligent student of the game and/or have good teachers, there is no reason not to begin learning all of the different facets of the game.
Dedication matters too. If one is only going to be playing infrequently and not practicing in-between rounds, they may never learn to throw even an understable driver well, and should probably stick with a midrange for their poor, stunted game.
I think we can all agree that they should be throwing just about the lowest stability discs they can get, as well.