The Community of Disc Golfers and About All Things Disc Golf
So I was up at the course today and someone was talking about the local newspaper having a front page article about disc golf. Seems that someone I don't even know went to the park advisory board to plead for new courses in the area. Supposedly they committed to getting five new courses in but there is no news on how they would be funded or where they would be. No mention of the local disc gold club either.
So I am not really impressed at the moment because it is only talk and I know how much work goes into getting a course going and then keeping it maintained. The city is pretty much in a permanent budget crisis so I wouldn't expect them to lay out a bunch of cash either. Also there was a new "course" put in not too far away but the design is terrible and nobody wants to even play it. You really need some good course design before it goes in.
Anyway, if there is some momentum maybe we could use it to put in a 9 hole course on a piece of park property where they already said we could put something in. One of the local guys thought he could put in 18 holes there but it just isn't big enough for that. It is just weird to be heavily involved in the local scene only to find out that there was a meeting with some people in the parks department and those of us from the local club were not even involved. I am also not sure about the claims made in the article that there are "national competitions" being held in Pueblo and Denver. That claim seems dubious at best. I am not sure if they got their information correct.
I would love to see new courses go in but only if they are well designed. Just throwing in a course to say that we did will not help our sport. What will help is getting a few really good courses put in.
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Hmmmmm, really? I think anytime someone can stand up in front of City Councils and plead a case strong enough to get an okay for new courses it is a good thing. You can't do anything else until that initial approval comes from the powers that be? I know that Mile High Disc Club has been successful in holding fundraisers to acquire funds for new courses. I would imagine that help would continue down there. The Springs has a couple of great courses now in Widefield and Sakuna, throw in a couple more and the potential for World's start to appear realistic. If some of the silly placements at Cottonwood go away it could be restored to quality again as well. Land is so expensive in Colorado that anytime a city grants approval for land use it should be taken as a plus. Getting your feelings hurt because someone outside of the normal channels stepped up with a solid proposal is not going to help. We in Northern Colorado have been trying for years and years to get approval for land use in Fort Collins and have met stiff opposition from Parks and from City Council. When we heard this news from the Springs we were green with envy!
As for the national competitions...Feldberg, Levieska, Jenkins, and many other top pros have made stops for Colorado States at Widefield/Pueblo in the past as well as in Ft Morgan and Conifer. I am not sure what the criteria for a national competition would be exactly but having the top pros here seems to qualify?
This is a good thing! Colorado is notorious for dragging their feet in granting quality land for new courses and this a solid step in the right direction.
1) My feelings aren't hurt. It is just strange that nobody "in the know" seems to know anything about this.
2) There are no silly placements at Cottonwood. We have the ability to set the couorse up in a hundred different ways so that you don't always play the same thing day after day. We do what we can with the land that we have (which has been reduced over the years by the City when they did an erosion project. We used to have tournaments at Cottonwood but not in some time now. Cottonwood is also the most popular course in the area.
3) Widefield isn't that great of a course. Decent, yes. Great, not really. I actually find it easier to play than Cottonwood. Also the baskets there are not rotated frequently enough. It gets a bit boring to play the same thing day after day.
4) I believe that it has been quite some time since the top players have been in either Widefield or Pueblo (maybe 8 to 10 years ago when they had an A-tier event there).
5) The Gazette has put out faulty information before about the local scene and disc golf. A couple of years back they had a story about a kid who claimed that he "was a state champion". Turned out the story was complete BS and they had to print a retraction shortly thereafter.
6) I am heavily involved in the local scene and will be organizing a work day at Cottonwood in a couple of weeks. Keeping up a course takes a lot of work. More courses will mean more work so it is very important that the whole thing is done correctly.
7)Quality is more important than quantity. As I said they recently put in a new "course" down in Fountain but it is never used because the local players find it boring and poorly designed. If we work with the city we have the opportunity to put in some top class courses.
I plan to call up a few folks at the parks department and see what is up. Maybe I could help design that nine hole course at Quail Lake. We already have initial approval for that site but nothing has happened with that. Maybe I could help with course design at some of the other possible sites. I agree that publicity is a good thing and support from the city is a good thing. But one article in the paper does not get you good courses. It is a start. But our city is broke so I don't see them doling out a bunch of cash anytime soon. Just saying. There is a reality here that goes beyond the hype.
Just a couple of things Jim, didn't want this to turn angry.
States was down there in '07, it was won by Feldberg. Cale, Avery, Ken Franks, and Kyle Crabtree were all there. I would say that is a pretty good turnout and only 5 years ago. States moved from there or they would still be coming back.
Cottonwood has some placements that make me cringe as a biologist. Pins hidden right behind groves of trees that force players to bash into them and poke and hope. Holes too close to waterways that did not help an otherwise awful erosion problem that will cost the course more in the future. They have fairways crossing over way too many times. As you said yourself a little later...quality is more important that quantity. Just because it has hundreds of placements doesn't make it a good course. In my very humble opinion...not even in the same league as Widefield and if it was, why didn't it host States all those years it was at Pueblo and Widefield?
Sakuna is on private land but the only "club" you need to be a member of to play? The PDGA. The owners of the property have hoped that by requiring players to be current members of the PDGA they could limit bad behavior and crowds. It is nice and quiet, clean, well maintained, and Cottonwood...is not.
All I was trying to say with this...land is at a premium in Colorado and if some guy has taken the time and effort to present to Parks and Rec, advisory board or not, there were several very positive direct quotes from board members, then he should be commended. I have seen many times where a fresh face that has not been to war in the past with Parks and Rec or City Councils can have a very positive effect in the promotion of our sport. No baggage, no bad blood, no history. If he had botched it and made the sport or your club look bad, that is a whole different conversation. This guy got unanimous approval for five new courses.
BTW Sakuna is on private land and not open to the general public. It is available to those in the local club. If it were to be overrun by others it would risk being pulled like HP for that very reason.
I just spoke with a friend of mine. He runs the Wednesday night league while I run the Thursday night league. He doesn't know what is going on either. Just a lot of rumors flying around. It could be a course here or a course there. Nobody knows anything. Furthermore it wasn't City Council where these proposals were made but the "parks and recreation advisory board". I'm not even sure who that is and I used to work for the Parks department.
So the rumor mill swirls...
A local player close to me announced a new course in the town he lived in was approved by the park board. A local "officer" of the disc golf club told him they could not do that without their input and permission. The local disc golfer told the club to f.o., they now have a new course in his town.
You shouldn't be complaining or acting like you have hurt feelings, because I agree that's what it sounds like, you should congratulate the guy and maybe even thank him.
What should I congratulate him on, a meeting with some people or an article in the paper? I will believe that there will be new courses when I see them. The Parks department stopped watering the grass in most parks because they don't have any money. Do you really believe that they will spend 6 grand for baskets? I don't. I'm not complaining or acting like I have hurt feelings. I just think that right now this is a big bucket of BS. Pure rumor and conjecture. What I do know is that in three weeks time I will be heading up a maintenance day at a course that actually exists. I believe just like everyone else that a few decent new courses would be a good thing. But the bureaucracy moves very slowly and just because a few people say that more courses would be a good thing does not make them a reality. I live in the real world.
One of the rumors was that a course would be put into a park where previously it was denied. I personally couldn't see a course in that park because there are a ton of people walking along with a lot of dogs. Why would the city just do a 180 and if we did get a course there how many problems would we have with all of the non disc golfers? Just saying. Rumors are a wonderful thing.
I am closing this discussion at the moment and may reopen it later if more information comes out. At this point you could call me (and some others) very skeptical. You can't be intimately involved with the local disc golf scene for 15 years and then some unknown person comes along and flips a "magic switch" and more courses appear overnight. I just don't buy it. If I learn something new I might come back and post more information.
I am just updating this thread to let people know that there is now a meeting that will be happening in a couple of weeks with the guy who went before the Parks Advisory board. I plan on attending in order to get my voice heard. It is strange the way that this has all gone down and I'm afraid that at the moment it has just caused a whole bunch of rumors and 100 different ways of looking at things. One side effect seems to be that people care even less for the current disc golf course now that they think there will be new courses coming in. As I said in another thread I hope that is not the case as we have a work day coming this Saturday. I am still hoping for a good turnout so that we can get some work done. We are also very aware of the erosion that happens at Cottonwood. It is one of our major concerns. We recently moved two tee boxes because of it.
Also, I only remember States being at Pueblo and Widefield for one year. That year my friend won Advanced. States was then in Pueblo but never returned to Widefield.
I just wanted to update and say that things are proceeding in our quest to get new courses. We now have a group of people involved and are moving forward with looking at properties. That is the first step. One other positive thing is that we have people who work for the City directly involved.
The only difficult thing seems to be getting everyone together at the same time for meetings. But that doesn't seem to be too much of an issue right now as the person who is spearheading all of this does keep everyone up to date with emails. There is good involvement by a bunch of different people.
I will update this thread as information comes along or we make progress. It is definitely not going to be a quick progress but those of us involved do know that we want to get at least one championship level course out of the deal. So we are definitely aiming high. I am also much more positive about our prospects at this point.