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Overweight Discs

You can find and purchase PDGA Approved discs, sold by major disc manufacturers, that weigh more than the PDGA rules allow. They don't have the excessive weight accurately marked on the disc, but if you weigh them, they are above legal weight. Also, it is possible that after purchase, a disc could gain weight by soaking in water, or accumulating dirt, etc. The rule stipulates 8.3 grams per centimeter of outside diameter. Are these discs illegal? Who is authorized to say? If I buy a disc that has a weight marked on it that is not accurate, and a TD says it is Illegal because it weighs too much, what do you do? The PDGA says "E. A player who carries an illegal disc during play shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by two or more players of the group or an official. A player who repeatedly throws an illegal disc during the round may be subject to disqualification in accordance with 804.05 A (3). "

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by JohnnyMax on March 5, 2009 at 10:50pm

Do we have to weigh and measure every disc that we carry in our bags to make sure we are not elligible for penalty?

Permalink Reply by Mike on March 5, 2009 at 11:20pm

I haven't ever seen a weigh station at any tournament, I think you will be ok.

Permalink Reply by Brandon Swanson on March 5, 2009 at 11:20pm

I don't know what the solution to this one would be. It could get out of hand on both sides. I often see drivers advertised on EBAY as "Well over max weight." It almost has the feel of a disc golf black market.

How would you know someone had an overweight disc? I think the only reasonable course of action if this became more common would be to randomly weigh discs from player's bags. You cannot weigh all the discs. You can't even go off of reasonable suspicion of cheating really.

The manufacturers should be held accountable here I suppose. Do THEY weigh all of their discs?

Personally, I don't worry about this one. I don't think someone throwing a heavier disc is going to have an advantage over me. BUT I see what you're saying and why you might get upset about this one. I guess we'll just have to see if this trend becomes more common...it'd be unfortunate.

Permalink Reply by Mike on March 5, 2009 at 11:28pm

If you have one of these just don't make it public knowledge during tournament play and you should be fine. Otherwise the td may pull out his digi and weigh it lol.

Permalink Reply by JC on March 6, 2009 at 8:29am

Well, since it's not feasible to have a scale and weigh every disc in every bag at every tournament, I think this is probably a non-starter. (and no, discs really can't take on noticeable weight from water and dirt...more likely to lose weight from wear and tear IMO)

The only way an over-weight disc is going to be discovered is if someone suspects and challenges it. And if the manufacturer put 175g on a disc weighing 178g, how or why is anyone going to suspect it's incorrect just by looking at it? A disc weighing 178 isn't going to visibly behave differently than a 175 any more than a 172 will fly visibly different from a 169. So no one is going to be able to watch you throw a disc and be able to identify the weight of the disc or even if the weight is labeled wrong. The rule about carrying illegal discs isn't just regarding over-weight discs, it also includes broken or perforated or altered discs, which I don't think we have to argue are a lot easier to spot than an over-weight one.

If a TD is weighing discs prior to an event, which I've never seen or heard of outside of Japan, then you really can't be penalized if they find an overweight disc. You just can't play with it (which might suck enough by itself). And personally, if it's labeled with a legal weight, I wouldn't throw it out. I'd just bring it to the next tournament and play with it like normal. It's legal in my book. That's why I don't weigh my own discs. I know the labeled weight is probably off by a gram or two...but a gram or two doesn't bother me in the least and certainly won't make a difference. But at least if I don't know they're incorrect, it's plausible deniability. :-D

Permalink Reply by krupicka on March 6, 2009 at 8:42am

Yes, discs can gain weight. According to Dave Dunipace (Innova Discs) "DX might lose a couple of grams over a long period of time, but the premium plastics won't . More likely, they will gain weight." As far as what to do with them, again DaveD "If it is an accurate scale, and you know for sure they are over weight and unsold/unused you can return them for exchange. ...If you choose to sell these discs, which I don't advise, you should warn the buyers that these discs aren't legal for PDGA play. I realize that the vast majority of disc golf is not PDGA, but we would prefer to exchange the discs rather than have them out there potentially illegal. " (All quotes from the pdga.com discussion boards.)

If you have an illegal disc, be a man about it, follow the rules, and don't use it for tournaments. Intentionally trying to circumvent the rules does no one any favors.

Permalink Reply by krupicka on March 6, 2009 at 8:47am

JC said:

If a TD is weighing discs prior to an event, which I've never seen or heard of outside of Japan, then you really can't be penalized if they find an overweight disc. You just can't play with it (which might suck enough by itself). And personally, if it's labeled with a legal weight, I wouldn't throw it out. I'd just bring it to the next tournament and play with it like normal. It's legal in my book.

I think your book isn't the book that everyone else plays by. Please do not advocate intentionally breaking the rules in tournament play.

Permalink Reply by JC on March 6, 2009 at 9:06am

Not advocating breaking rules. The disc is LABELED with a weight. I'm going on that information, not one TD's scale for which I have no evidence that it is accurate. What if his scale said my Aviar weighed 176 g (legal limit is 175)? I'm supposed to assume that his scale is dead on and I'm a gram over limit and I have to toss out my putter permanently? I don't think so. Let the PDGA ban my disc from play if it comes to that, but until then, with a manufacturer labeled legal weight on the disc, I'm going to continue to throw it, legally.

I won't put up a fuss if that TD's weighing all discs in his tournament with the same scale...I'll simply acquiesce to him and not use the disc in his event. But if I never again play a tournament where they're weighing discs beforehand, how is anyone going to know that disc is even suspected of being illegal? Especially if I don't believe it's illegal. It says 174, that's what I'm going with. Period.

If we're going to get nit-picky about discs possibly gaining weight over time or whatever, then get a scale to every TD and weigh every disc before every event, hell every damn throw. Otherwise, I'm using a disc that was sold as legal and is marked as legal if I choose to.
krupicka said:

JC said:
If a TD is weighing discs prior to an event, which I've never seen or heard of outside of Japan, then you really can't be penalized if they find an overweight disc. You just can't play with it (which might suck enough by itself). And personally, if it's labeled with a legal weight, I wouldn't throw it out. I'd just bring it to the next tournament and play with it like normal. It's legal in my book.

I think your book isn't the book that everyone else plays by. Please do not advocate intentionally breaking the rules in tournament play.

Permalink Reply by Ken Long on March 6, 2009 at 9:20am

I have an Innova Jaguar @ just 200g. I rarely use it except for strengthening my throwing arm or on a right to left tee shot to the pin. It works well in wind and when well thrown...looks like a UFO.
But to answer your question. Don't worry about it unless your disc has holes drilled in it for some sort of advantage. That right there my be a game stopper or penalty provider for illegal tampering.
K.

Permalink Reply by Jamie 'gr8rocshot' Ruane on March 6, 2009 at 10:24am

This is a quality control issue....across the board.

Innova seems to be the worst offender...Discraft uses a range so they are genrally closer to what they are marked.

Discs are marked wrong to often then not..

I once checked the weights on 10 Innova Discs...7 out of 10 were wrong...the biggest margin 5 grams.

I also had an 184 Roc marked 180..when I sold it I put the real weight in the items description plus a reminder of the max weight rule.

The PDGA should pressure the Disc Manufacturers in getting it right the first time...

....at this point I swear...The way they do it now is... some dude holds the disc in one hand...moves it up and down...squints one eye...and mumbles "1....6...7 no 8, that's it, 168" lol!!

Permalink Reply by Jamie 'gr8rocshot' Ruane on March 6, 2009 at 11:35am

All in all....that could be done is if your disc(s) were found to be over weight specs...is a warning and maybe forced to remove it from your bag.

The improper labling of disc weight is so widespread now...it would be impossible to prove a player didn't know that the weight marked on his disc was wrong.

Permalink Reply by JohnnyMax on March 6, 2009 at 1:17pm

The PDGA says "E. A player who carries an illegal disc during play shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by two or more players of the group or an official. A player who repeatedly throws an illegal disc during the round may be subject to disqualification in accordance with 804.05 A (3). "