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I know this discussion has been hit on before, but i need to vent a little bit more on this subject. Being a current PDGA member, a co-TD, and a certified official I feel as though I have the right. I am really confused about one thing. Why Professional disc golfers are allowed to play in advanced events if there rating is below a 970? I do not see the reasoning behind this decision. My rating varies as so do my scores. Currently it is 908. I personally choose to play in the advanced division as I believe it should make me a stronger player. The Pdga mission statement says something to the effect of growing the sport. I don't see it that way. Adding the novice division was a joke. The division that should have been added is the" I refuse to go pro" advanced division with a rating starting at 951. The intermediate division from 900-950. the rec division for anyone below a 900 AND anyone wishing to play that is not a CURRENT PDGA member. This keeps the baggers who should be playing pro from the loop hole of not renewing their membership and playing in whichever division they choose. The PDGA wants this sport to grow. How? More pro golfers are what this sport needs. More pro golfers are what is going to get the big dollar sponsors. Letting them stay in the am field is the pdga's way of growing the sport? Maybe i am not seeing it the way they do. I do appreciate what these volunteers do for us. on the other hand I do not agree. Or are they volunteers. I should have done a little research on this but, do the PDGA board members collect a paycheck? From the 08/09 finacial report it shows board and committees $28,791. This to me looks like expenses only and they do not collect a paycheck. Just reinbursements. Personnel, $328,036. This is for office staff, accountants, and consultants. Doesn't look like a very wealthy income to me. It seems as though they must really like their job. So thank you for all your hard work. It is appreciated. one rule that i do agree with is the am's playing pro. am's are allowed to accept merchandise in lieu of cash. I like this rule with the intent of the player wanting to go pro, but is waiting to play World's before he moves up. If he so chooses to stay and play advanced after worlds has passed, i do not agree with. Yet under the current guidelines this is perfectly legal. Honestly if I didn't need to be current to run events for the PDGA, i would not renew my membership. I don't see the point when the little guy doesn't have a voice. The ams are the ones that keep this sport alive and yet everything is catered to the pros. The ams buy most of the gear. The ams buy most of the plastic. The am tourneys are always at full capacity. Even with $1500 added cash I have seen pro events not come anywhere near filling. Sad but true. Is there a place where current pdga members can read or listen to actual pdga board meetings and what is actually discussed? I would be quite intrigued to know what is actually being discussed and voted on. I also would like to know how a member could bring something up for vote. I am guessing but you probably have to go through your state representative and not talk to your board members directly. Kind of like our governments smoke and mirrors game. Enoough with the rant. Please do not turn this into a smoker/ non-smoker battle. I would like to hear some feedback from every type of player. Pro,Advanced, intermediate and rec players. The baggers can also voice their opinion if they so choose. Again thanks to everyone involved with the PDGA for all of their work. All of your time that you put towards making the PDGA what it is. Thank you. I still do not agree with everything but, I still support you.

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Russell- you are going to win because you are a Sandbagger by definition. The highest rated player in your division and you are proud of this. Good Luck, you will need it; from, the Pro rated at 938, LMAO! Blah, blah, blah. Win, win, win that's what it's all about. How's that? The response you intended to elicit? I win every time I get to play. :-)
Being expected to win then being able to actually handle the pressure and win is an important skill to develop no matter what your level.
AMEN John !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well john what are you saying? should russ play ADV? If he played ADV he would most certianly get smacked around. I have seen it and it is not pretty!

Just because a guy is the highest rated in his division and expects to win does not mean he is a bagger. I played with a guy 899 in rec and I am rated 876 currently but you know what I beat him as did others in the rec division.

Sure Russ could probably hang with the people playing INT, but what is the point in doing so if payouts are nearly the same, entry fees are higher for the higher divisions, and competition in rec is still good, plus he has a shot at winning.

I have played in a B-tier in Rec at my home course and tied for 6th. Does that make me a bagger when I play Rec in a different B-tier and take 4th?

Like he said he was beat by a 850 rated player in a previous tournament and he hass confidence that he can and will beat him this tournament. Russ did not go out and tank a bunch of rounds to lower his rating to play Rec so he can destroy the division. That would be bagging and sadly enough I have seen it happen.

Perhaps the ratings committee should make it so that if your rating drops under the division rating where you have been playing by 5 points or less say you been playing INT and are dropping to 895 just so you can win rec then perhaps maybe force them to play INT for another round of ratings by making their rating 900 right on the cap.

Maybe the PDGA should make a rule that all non-members and non-currents have to play either ADV or PRO.
Yes, Russell should play INT but, that is my opinion and I wouldn't expect to change Russell's mind on this. Many factors arise when deciding what division to play in including expected competition, the course, weather, and costs. Nobody can tell you when to move up but, be ready to accept the taunts of "Bagger," a tradition I fully support. Again- 4u2NV you miss the point. The fact is that the PDGA is doing all it can to stem Bagging. Players like Russ make a mistake IMO by relating their rating with the RETC. Improving your game is winning and when you play against folks that you are clearly better than you are limiting your chances of improvement. I moved up because I needed to be with people that take the game more seriously. Now that I'm a Master age player I might begin winning more prizes, also. Opps, I'm rated below even these old guys, oh well, keep throwing.
Bagger! If you ask me 892 is still Int! Chuck just decided to cut the ADV division into two parts last year.

I remember when if you were over 875 you played int and once you got to 925 you moved to ADV. Then they moved it from 925 down to 915 to make the division bigger then like I said Chuck cut it in two. 892 is not a Rec player if you ask me.Rec event when I was like 13 and never played it again since that was for the true beginners.
I know I would feel like a bagger playing in Rec without anyone even saying something. I thought Rec is technically for beginners that are breaking into the tournament scene, maybe forge a birth certificate and play in juniors =)
I remember, I thought, It used to be...........
If those of you that think playing REC, would get current with what is going on you would realize that none of that is true anymore. I didn't used to play REC either until this year. The divisions have changed and the ratings now state that I am a REC player. There is now a Novice division now that is for those "So called Beginners".

And NO, John I don't win, win, win. As a matter of fact I have never won. The best finish to date was my Second place at Lexington. Yet I am called a bagger from people like you all the time. If I show up at every tournament and place in the bottom 5 or 10 I will never learn how to win. Until Lexington I had never even been on the Top card, going into a final round. And what good did that do when that 850 Rated "Bagger" came from 3 cards back and shot the round of his life to beat me and everyone else on the top 3 cards.
I hear it all the time where I live, "You'll never get any better if you don't play people better than you". I get plenty of practice with those better than me. I play all the time with those ADV, and Pro players. When I get beat down even practicing I'm surely not going to donate to them come tournament day. So I play where I belong.
Here is another aspect of this problem. Earlier this season I was not a current PDGA member so I should have to pay the non-member fee of $10. I played two tournaments as a non-current member, in the registration process you supply a PDGA # if you are a current member then you do not pay the extra $10, no number then you pay and also they have no way of knowing what your rating would be unless they have the time too look up all the names of non-members, so if you wanted to bag I think this would be the loophole. Granted in both events I played Am2 above my 891 rating and placed second to last in the first tournament, and tied for 4th in the second one, beating quite a few with 900-935 ratings. In the first tournament there was a huge Am3 field that had many non-members playing in it that would have been competitive in Am2. I guess it all just comes down to how much you want to challenge yourself or how much better the payout could be if you play in a larger field with lower skilled players. I know in Am2 I can be competitive but could also be over my head.
Usually TDs ask for PDGA number even if you aren't current. If they include it on the tournament report, then you will get ratings for the event even if you can't see them. However, your history will be hidden online for you to see if you do renew later.
My rating doesn't support it but I play Advanced Masters because of age - not scoring. I enjoy playin' with the older guys... I figure I have an opportunity to learn something I can use vs. watching youngsters bomb Destroyers and Forces all day long...
Just play Open . That's what I have been always told by tournament directors.

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