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I know this discussion has been hit on before, but i need to vent a little bit more on this subject. Being a current PDGA member, a co-TD, and a certified official I feel as though I have the right. I am really confused about one thing. Why Professional disc golfers are allowed to play in advanced events if there rating is below a 970? I do not see the reasoning behind this decision. My rating varies as so do my scores. Currently it is 908. I personally choose to play in the advanced division as I believe it should make me a stronger player. The Pdga mission statement says something to the effect of growing the sport. I don't see it that way. Adding the novice division was a joke. The division that should have been added is the" I refuse to go pro" advanced division with a rating starting at 951. The intermediate division from 900-950. the rec division for anyone below a 900 AND anyone wishing to play that is not a CURRENT PDGA member. This keeps the baggers who should be playing pro from the loop hole of not renewing their membership and playing in whichever division they choose. The PDGA wants this sport to grow. How? More pro golfers are what this sport needs. More pro golfers are what is going to get the big dollar sponsors. Letting them stay in the am field is the pdga's way of growing the sport? Maybe i am not seeing it the way they do. I do appreciate what these volunteers do for us. on the other hand I do not agree. Or are they volunteers. I should have done a little research on this but, do the PDGA board members collect a paycheck? From the 08/09 finacial report it shows board and committees $28,791. This to me looks like expenses only and they do not collect a paycheck. Just reinbursements. Personnel, $328,036. This is for office staff, accountants, and consultants. Doesn't look like a very wealthy income to me. It seems as though they must really like their job. So thank you for all your hard work. It is appreciated. one rule that i do agree with is the am's playing pro. am's are allowed to accept merchandise in lieu of cash. I like this rule with the intent of the player wanting to go pro, but is waiting to play World's before he moves up. If he so chooses to stay and play advanced after worlds has passed, i do not agree with. Yet under the current guidelines this is perfectly legal. Honestly if I didn't need to be current to run events for the PDGA, i would not renew my membership. I don't see the point when the little guy doesn't have a voice. The ams are the ones that keep this sport alive and yet everything is catered to the pros. The ams buy most of the gear. The ams buy most of the plastic. The am tourneys are always at full capacity. Even with $1500 added cash I have seen pro events not come anywhere near filling. Sad but true. Is there a place where current pdga members can read or listen to actual pdga board meetings and what is actually discussed? I would be quite intrigued to know what is actually being discussed and voted on. I also would like to know how a member could bring something up for vote. I am guessing but you probably have to go through your state representative and not talk to your board members directly. Kind of like our governments smoke and mirrors game. Enoough with the rant. Please do not turn this into a smoker/ non-smoker battle. I would like to hear some feedback from every type of player. Pro,Advanced, intermediate and rec players. The baggers can also voice their opinion if they so choose. Again thanks to everyone involved with the PDGA for all of their work. All of your time that you put towards making the PDGA what it is. Thank you. I still do not agree with everything but, I still support you.

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My rating doesn't support it but I play Advanced Masters because of age - not scoring. I enjoy playin' with the older guys... I figure I have an opportunity to learn something I can use vs. watching youngsters bomb Destroyers and Forces all day long...
Just play Open . That's what I have been always told by tournament directors.
Not to minimalize your concern, but I am sure there are other reasons for not making that a requirement. Such as...

TDs are volunteers and if they had to spend extra money to supply people with water at every event they might decide just not to run the tournament.
The PDGA although the governing body of the sport leaves it up to the TDs to use their best descresion in order to assure safety of the players.

Perhaps the PDGA should disallow all retrieval of discs from water because they have gators in florida and other southeast states. Again here is the midwest we don't have gators but heck it is a safety issue for those in the southeast. I get my disc if it goes in the water with a golden retriever, I have seen others wade chest high to get theirs back.
There are tons of people in the midwest region that the "free water" rule if instated would cause problems and tournaments would decrease.

I agree with the PDGA on this one as players should be held responsible for their own safety. Bags have multiple beverage holders for a reason. Yes it makes the bag weigh significantly more but it is your decision.
Man, I'm glad that Chuck is on this site!!!!
Would all of you who have gripes or should I say "Gabbers" just listen to the man. He is on the PDGA Ratings committee. Yet you still argue with him about how things should be done. This is obviously the way the PDGA wants it too be, so abide by it! You abide by the rules in the rulebook, so abide by the ratings too!!
If it offends you so much why do you continue to play a sport that supposedly "Promotes Bagging".? Why do you renew your membership with the Organization who "Promotes Bagging"?

And just to get under the skin of some of you.........
I am 892 Rated, I am playing REC in a B-Tier event this weekend, I am the highest rated player thus far in the REC class, and I am going to win(because I am that sure of myself). Even though the kid with an 850 rating who beat me out for 1st in the Lexington Open is also signed up in REC.
Russell- you are going to win because you are a Sandbagger by definition. The highest rated player in your division and you are proud of this. Good Luck, you will need it; from, the Pro rated at 938, LMAO! Blah, blah, blah. Win, win, win that's what it's all about. How's that? The response you intended to elicit? I win every time I get to play. :-)
Being expected to win then being able to actually handle the pressure and win is an important skill to develop no matter what your level.
AMEN John !!!!!!!!!!!!!
First off I think pros should be able to play am1 if their rating is low enough. If they play bad enough to drop below 970 they should be able to play am. I do think they need to have a rule with players who are 1000 rated and still in am1. You have to move to am1 when you hit 935, why wouldnt they have a restriction on am1 too. I have 2 main suggestions.

Instead of squeezing in another division for am why not re evaluate the current divisions. As more and more players are playing tournaments the number of higher end players increase. I see many tournaments with stacked am1(forced 935+ with high 970 looking for good payouts) with other divisions dwindling, most not having more than 3 or 4 novice if any. Raise the cap for am2 to 950. am3 910, am4 870 and add a cap to am1 at around 990.

I would think the more people would complain about the 4 month ratings update. I can see many players (some would call baggers, i wouldnt) who are 895 rated, winning am3 for 4 months, then new rating 930ish. Ready to win am 2 for 4 months. I would think a more up to date ratings system would prevent this.

Again, ratings are set up for a reason. If everyone plays their suggested division it would be more fair for everyone. People who move up divisions have nothing to complain about.
I would be fine with a change in division caps. with the exception of Am4 As it is people playing in am 4 are too inconsistant to compete with people rated around 850 let alone 870
Might want to consider looking at the actual ratings distributions before reconsidering division caps:
Well john what are you saying? should russ play ADV? If he played ADV he would most certianly get smacked around. I have seen it and it is not pretty!

Just because a guy is the highest rated in his division and expects to win does not mean he is a bagger. I played with a guy 899 in rec and I am rated 876 currently but you know what I beat him as did others in the rec division.

Sure Russ could probably hang with the people playing INT, but what is the point in doing so if payouts are nearly the same, entry fees are higher for the higher divisions, and competition in rec is still good, plus he has a shot at winning.

I have played in a B-tier in Rec at my home course and tied for 6th. Does that make me a bagger when I play Rec in a different B-tier and take 4th?

Like he said he was beat by a 850 rated player in a previous tournament and he hass confidence that he can and will beat him this tournament. Russ did not go out and tank a bunch of rounds to lower his rating to play Rec so he can destroy the division. That would be bagging and sadly enough I have seen it happen.

Perhaps the ratings committee should make it so that if your rating drops under the division rating where you have been playing by 5 points or less say you been playing INT and are dropping to 895 just so you can win rec then perhaps maybe force them to play INT for another round of ratings by making their rating 900 right on the cap.

Maybe the PDGA should make a rule that all non-members and non-currents have to play either ADV or PRO.
That might be the total number of pdga players registered per rating. This does not take into account if they play tournaments, how many they play or all the players that are not pdga rated. Which I assume would increase the numbers on mostly the lower AM rated divisions.

I have not analyzed any specific stats. If i get the time maybe i will throw in a months worth of tournaments to give you a better picture.

One thing I would like to add is that most tournament directors do a great job of sending in results next day so I think my second suggestion is very dueable. Switching it to monthly or even bi monthly could help out a lot.


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