I'm trying to answer this question for myself. I just bought an ESP Surge to go along with my Z Surge. I've had the Z for a while and I don't throw it very much. It's just fine, but it's too overstable for my max D throwing form. I'm hoping that the ESP with hyzer flip for me a little and then come back gradually at the end. I used it twice in my last round I haven't thrown any flat bombs with it yet, just hyzers so I have no conclusive info for you, BUT I will say that it was awesome for those two hyzer shots! I dueced a hole that I'd never dueced before with it! It's only 340ft, but you have to go up and over a 80-100ft tall hill crest if you go the hyzer route. It stayed on the hyzer line nicely and didn't fall off as quickly as more overstable discs. I think it will be great for long sweeping hyzers.
My initial answer is that I think you'd like them both depending on your power and what you're looking for. I do like the Z, but I have other discs to fulfill the more overstable bomber roll (teerex-x). I'll get back to you on this one when I've compared the two discs side by side a bit. Probably in the field today or tomorrow.
I now realize that I said a lot without having anything to say. :-/ Sorry.
i myself throw the surge ss in z plastic, i started off with a esp flx ss one but found it to be to flippy, whereas the z one is just perfect, when thrown on a hyzer line it will flip up go straight or any out for a looooong ways and still come back slightly to the left for me, i still use my flx one for those shots you want to curve out to the right and keep that line. i also have the regular esp surge and z surge, but don't carry them at this time, as i personally get more distance out of the ss ones, but as i have just started to get more snap and control in my throw, i might have to break them back out and give them another try.
at this time the only disc i can throw farther than my ss z surge would be my 150 gram r pro boss, but its no good in the wind and one tree hit and they are done, anyone who has one knows what i am talking about LOL, i sure hope they come out with the star 150 version boss they have rumored to be making, cause word to the wise, if your not a big arm thrower, the 150 r pro boss is the bomb !!! seriously i am throwing mine around 450 foot which is 50 feet longer than any other disc in my bag, sorry about bringing innova into a discraft discussion, but do to the usefulness of this disc i had to let others know about it, this disc has given me at least ten of my longest drives on various holes in the last week and 5 deuces on holes i had not deuced before ! this disc for me has been that holy grail disc you always dream about but never seem to find, for real !
Both are great discs, Z has gone much farther for me than the ESP, but I have both in my bag. I like the milky Z runs. And since everyone else is dragging the Z SS into this thread - it's also a sweet disc.
Brandon, i personally find the z surge ss to be less stable and have more glide than the regular z surge, but personally not flippy unless grip locked, i can crank on it and for me it is one of my most predictable discs that i can get good distance out of with feeling i have to throw my arm out of its socket to get it to do what i want, if i throw it hard in a somewhat hyzered angle it will any out in a nice s pattern and turn back a little at the end, very controllable, i am going to have to break out my regular z surge and do a comparison and see how it compares, before when i had less snap in my game i threw the z ss consistently farther then the regular z surge and found it easier to control, so my z surge went onto the collection pile, now with more snap in my game i might find the z surge usefull as well. but keep in mind i am not a big arm thrower, i can throw the ss surge around 400 on the flat, if your a big arm thrower you might find it flippy.
Thanks for the info Chris. I actually had a FLX Surge SS for a while, but traded it away as it was a little too flippy for me and I had a tendency to grip lock the FLX plastic. So I've been trying to fish out of people if the Z version of the disc is not as understable, and that appears to be the case from what I'm hearing. It sounds like we have similar power...I'm pretty sure I've cranked on a destroyer to get 450' before, but 390-400' with a teerex-x is more typical. I didn't like the overall results with the destroyer, or any disc really past the Surge/Wraith speed. They seem too speed or nose angle sensitive to me. I'm coming back the surge for controlled distance.
Okay, I'm back from the testing field on these two discs and this is what I've found:
The Z is more overstable. I got a nice 410' S Curve rip with my ESP Surge. I had to release the Z on a turnover angle to get the most out of it and it still didn't go as far as the ESP. The ESP just seems to punch through the line with better glide. The Z seemed to go straight for a long while and then abruptly fall off left. The low-speed fade with the ESP is less pronounced and gradual. I also liked the results with the ESP when I threw the disc at 75% power...it still held a sweet line, whereas the Z just wanted to go left at that speed. I think the Z would make a good disc for throwing a power hyzer shot where you can't chance a flip up.
There's my review. Lotto has been right all along: the ESP Surge is MONEY.
It's been too long since I threw a wraith for me to answer this one. I'm thinking about trying out the wraith again. If I do, I'll give you a side-by-side comparison. Right now I can't say much more than I've said earlier on this thread. Read the one above this. I favor the ESP Surge.
Do you throw a champ, star, or pro wraith? How far?