173g Gold line Vision... nice amt of turn brand new.
150g champ valk is my sure turning disc though... it will still turn even if I throw it a little lighter. This is also my current roller. When that vision beats in I'm guessing I will switch to that. If I'm really going to blast a roller, that's probably what I'll use now.
To answer your question: both... out of the box understables that are beat up. :-)