idk. i havent played at sugaw in a while but i remember getting around +8/+10 at sugaw and around +18 at renny gold. Yea I got the ace at Camp Bonclarken. They have a really good course with innova pro catchers and real tee pads and everything. Mine was on a 189 ft. hole but i threw i sidearm hyzer so it was around 220-250 foot shot. And it was blind which is scary as hell cause u dont know if it really went in.