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This is an effort to help introduce disc sports to the 1 Billion people of India. On a recent visit, I checked into it, and found no disc golf courses in the entire country! There are only Ultimate teams in a few cities. I discovered that disc sports are just taking off in a big way in India as Ultimate Frisbee.
Since my return, I've thought about sponsoring a central disc sports facility in India for Ultimate teams to use, and also build the country's first DG course there as well. I've been in contact with some Indian Ultimate teams and we have had several discussions about it.
We feel the only way to get disc golf into India is through Ultimate.
To kick things off, we are giving India Ultimate teams a $400 gift of custom Ultimate discs and we are including a crapload of disc golf plastic for them to learn the game with.

Pledges from people like Terry Calhoun, who immediately donated to the cause (as usual) are needed now to help make this gift show that we are committed to help develop disc sports in India. Please donate money and/or golf or Ultimate discs (new or used) via this post, below.

Dave McCormack, Owner of Gateway Disc Sports has also shown interest in helping lanuch disc golf in India.
I'm sure you all can see the great potential market is there, but all I want is for 1 billion people to have the gift of disc.
Wanna help?

Your donations will go far in launching disc sports to the people of India.

Lets start with a summary of what has pledges made thus far, and a history of communications on the subject.

Subsequent threads are used to coordinate this effort...



Summary of pledges so far... YOUR NAME COULD GO HERE!

Marty Wollner: $400 plus 10 new colormax golf discs

Terry Calhoun: $20 plus an unspecified bunch of golf discs

Dave McCormack: Showed interest in Disc Golf in India

Larry Gross: $10

Basil Stroster: $10

Sam K, $15



History of communications:

(2-Jan-2010) Ultimate is shaping up in India!
to Bob Houston, Discraft Ultimate Specialist

Bob, check this out...

they have 1,000,000,000 potential players in India!

marty
discflicker.com

----- Original Message -----
From: venkatesh m
To: bangalore_ultimate@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:54 AM
Subject: [bangalore_ultimate] check out this video



hey ,

here are videos of some games this years singapore ultimate league..i think. Check it out and send ur comments..

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2F91DE071220E5F1

venky




Hi All,

Thanks for an amazing weekend of well-spirited Ultimate and great fun!

With the 6 teams in attendance there were a lot of interactions going
on, talk about the future of Indian Ultimate and how to spread the game
to many others all over India. Great potential to tap into.

The matches were fantastic to watch and *many* close games. Even better
to see how the 'self-officiating' philosophy of Ultimate really works
for many new players.

The results over the weekend are as follows:

*Saturday*


Stall 7 8
The Fat & The Furious 13
R1 Flying Dutchmen 7
Nine Stars 0

R2 Stall 7 8
Flying Dutchmen 10

Storm Dogs 2
Dream Catchers 5


R3 Nine Stars 6
The Fat & The Furious 13

Dream Catchers 12
Storm Dogs 3

R4 Flying Dutchmen 10
Stall 7 3

Nine Stars 9
Fat & Furious 9

R5 Stall 7 7
Flying Dutchmen 10

Dream Catchers 5
Storm Dogs 7

R6 Fat & Furious 13
Nine Stars 10

Dream Catchers 5
Storm Dogs 11
*Sunday*



R7 Flying Dutchmen 8
Stall 7 W

The Fat & The Furious 10
Nine Stars L

R8 Storm Dogs 10

Dream Catchers 8


Semi Finals

The Fat & The Furious 11
Stall 7 9

Storm Dogs 5
Flying Dutchmen 5

Finals

The Fat & The Furious 7
Stall 7 4



Standings
*1st Place:* The Fat and the Furious
Runners Up: Stall 7
3rd Place: Flying Dutchmen
4th Place: Storm Dogs
5th Place: Dream Catchers
6th Place: 9 Stars

*'Most Spirited Team' Award:* Flying Dutchmen

Let me take this opportunity to thank all the teams for their
participation, donations and excellent attitudes. In spite of a *few*
logistical errors it was fantastic to see how easy in the stride all the
players took them and just got on with the tournament. A true sign of
Ultimate Players :)

Have a great New Year!

Warm Regards,
*
The Entire Ahmedabad Ultimate/Indicorps Team :)*
AU Project Manager & Fellowship Support
Phone: +91 90994.55839

Apply for the August 2010 Indicorps Fellowship - Application Part 1:
November 15, Part 2 : January 1, Deadline: March 1, 2010
(http://apply.indicorps.org/




(09-Jan-2010) Future of Ultimate in India? They need a place to play!

from: Bangalore Ultimate


----- Original Message -----
From: venkatesh m
To: bangalore_ultimate@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [bangalore_ultimate] Great game today...



yes it was nice to see the energy and i should say we played in good spirit..which is important:)

i think if we play more such matches in PG, we shud play 6 on 6 or 5 on 5. Look..the ground dimensions, criccketers and that stupid barrier just doesnt make for proper play . So we take it easy and play 6 on 6 . Reg injuries, looks like we in India seem to be more prone to it:)...crowding too much and we want to do clever defense moves! but we definitely need a proper ground. The army schools in blore have lots of grounds... but how do we explore this? can we talk to the MICO sports dept for their grounds?

venky

--- On Sat, 1/9/10, Gnana Shekar A.N wrote:


From: Gnana Shekar A.N
Subject: Re: [bangalore_ultimate] Great game today...
To: bangalore_ultimate@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 1:41 PM




you are right Cliff, may be we should plan for atleast 2 matches in a month

Lets plan to play in an fairly bigger and non populated ground, if it means to pay and use lets do it



Warm Regards,

Gnana Shekar

"Those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go!!!" - T.S.Eliot



(9-Jan-2010) Marty starts dreaming
to: Bangalore Ultimate

If you could have a set of dream tournament fields dedicated to India-wide Ultimate and other disc sports, where would it be and what would it look like?

Since its a dream, I would include a hotel for visiting teams and rest room facilities near every field. Any more suggestions?

computerized game scheduling and registration
restaurants
pro shop for discs, shirts, etc...


marty



(10-Jan-2010) Replies
from: Bangalore Ultimate

Clifford Joseph said:

Manu,

With the scale of Ultimate in Chennai, I would probably suggest Chennai...

Cliff
It's a beautiful day!!!
# 9538865520



Arunesh Kumar said:

A beer dispenser would be grand!



(10-Jan-2010) Marty asks more specifics
to Bangalore Ultimate

OK. Does anyone have any idea how many full-time Ultimate fields we could keep going? Any idea of Chennai location, so a whole bunch of teams from all over India can get there and back quickly? Are there any legal issues like insurance for players, insurance for the buildings, etc.? Access to fresh water? Lets dream it into something feasible.

marty



(29-Jan-2010)
to Bangalore Ultimate

Hey all

I was asking about what you guys thought would be a dream facility for Ultimate players. I ask because I'm willing to help get one started, in the way of MONEY!

I'm lookin at it this way... 1 billion players, only a handful of Ultimate teams and no disc golf (yet).

THIS WILL CHANGE!!!!

If I had my way, I would want a grand facility supporting Ultimate and disc golf. A place with showers for players and a pro shop to buy discs and snacks.


If you guys help with some leg work, we might get this thing off, and think what it would do to promote disc sports in India.


I wanted to know where such a facility should be located, what it would cost to build and how it would be managed.

I am a serious investor, and I can perhaps get some help from the likes of Discraft, Gateway, J-Bird, etc.


So, please take me seriously, and think about, dream about, what you guys want and then let me know how much it costs.



OK?


thanks!


marty



(06-Feb-2010) Replies
from: Bangalore Ultimate

From: Manu Karan
To: mwollner@twmi.rr.com
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:13 AM
Subject: Re: [IUL_coordinators] Fw: Dream feilds


Hi Marty,


I am part of the Chennai Ultimate Frisbee group.
I've been travelling and been meaning to get back to you on this email. Just found the time (from the HongKong airport) on my way back to Chennai.


My 2 cents on this topic.


Your'e right about there being a lot of potential for frisbee sports in India. I'm however more bullish on Ultimate than Disc Golf at this point because of the following points
a) Space is premium in India. Its REALLY expensive. Given this hard constraint, Ultimate is easier to grow in this aspect 'cause it doesn't require as much space. Also at this point, it's important to get everyone to focus on one thing to get it right. Two new disc sports just spreads everyone thin and will probably kill both sports before it even takes off.
b) It's important to keep the sport low cost if we want it to grow, considering its new and not native to the country. In this angle, once again.. space will be the key deciding factor.
c) The market for a paid full-fledged sports club for ultimate is still a couple of years away in my opinion. Today the TAM (total available market) for Ultimate players is just 300 people.. and that's spead over 5 cities. (Chennai has the largest player population right now with about 7 teams/130-140 players.) But out of these hardly 10% can or would be willing to pay for such a facility at this point. So, that leaves you with making an expensive investment for a market of 30 people only.


But, definitely do keep tabs on the Indian Ultimate scene. In my opinion we'll get to a place where a first economically viable business targeted at Ultimate (apparel store, or disc store, or sports facility or anything) in 3 years tops. We're growing exponentially. I think we'll hit a TAM of 3000 players in 3 years. Thats when its worth the investment. Right now, we're not there yet! :-).


cheers,
Manu


On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 5:37 PM, clifford joseph wrote:



Hey Guys,

Marty has sent across a very serious email about how we can really launch the Ultimate frisbee and Disc golf scene in India..

Kindly think about it seriously and see what we could do about it....

Cliff
It's a beautiful day!!!
# 9538865520



(06-Feb-2010) Marty rants
to Bangalore Ultimate

From my perspective, India is over-ripe for investing in disc sports facilities. I think we all see what Ultimate will become there, and I'm happy about it. Ultimate changes the lives of most of the people who play it in a greatly positive way... for their health, their social interactions and confidence, and for society, as they all have learned respect and fair play.

If there were a set of fields anywhere near a populated city in India, I am certain they would be all played upon in the very near future. If needed, these fields could also be used for Cricket, "Football" (soccer), Rugby, etc.

As for disc golf, it needs to be introduced into India. Its the fastest growing sport in the world, and anyone can play it, not just marathon-running ultimate types. Unlike ball golf, disc golf is CHEEP... just bring a disc and have FUN! Most of the courses in the world are free to play, but some have advanced onto "pay-to-play" systems, which is even better, and still dirt cheap, like $2 /day.

I would like for Indian Ultimate players to do some legwork, and look for an existing facility or for a place a new one can be built upon. If we get this off, there will certainly be employment opportunities for the managers/maintainers.

There must be some existing facilities somewhere in the country.

In the USA, I would start by looking into an obsolete ball golf courses, or ones that want to support "FLY-18" (disc golf retro-fitted into existing ball golf courses). I'm thinking that disc golf will supercede and replace ball golf over the next 50 years or so world-wide. The reasons for this include the increasing costs of water and costs for fairway maintenance. Disc golf courses don't need to be watered at all, nor do they require expensive maintenance. A golf course certainly has enough room for some ultimate fields as well.

Many cities are also willing to invest in public parks, so that's another way to go, perhaps retro-fitting Ultimate fields as an enhancement to existing public facilities, knowing that a generous donation is there to get things rolling, along with the possibility of ongoing income for the city in the form of facility use fees.


Perhaps someone can look into these possibilities, not for the purposes of making a ton of money, but for the purposes of giving the gifts of disc sports to the masses. I been there, and trust me, India needs it, bad.


Once again, this is dream time, so please, dream away... send this to anyone who might help out...


marty
discflicker.com



(06-Feb-2010) Replies

from: Clifford Joseph


Marty,

You could use this as a quite data point...

There are two golf clubs just on the outskirts of Bangalore that we could approach. They are:-


SPT: http://www.sptindia.com/: These guys also have football and a couple of other sports and would be willing to help promote Ultimate frisbee too.. It is just that they need to know there is money in the sport and big players are willing to back the sport with monetary support. Need to watch them closely to ensure they dont try to make money... This location is about a 30-40 minute drive from the city and a perfect place to be spending a saturday over the game. We can also have camps for school kids. There are shower and dining facilities too...

Eagleton Resorts: http://www.eagletonindia.com/: About 45-60 minutes from Bangalore. Has only the golf club. We could look at tying up with them for Disc golf...

There is an Ultimate Enthusiast who owns a store selling high-end mountain bikes. He has been considering stocking Frisbees too. With a little help with the stock, he would be more than glad to get started. Just that the Indian market requires frisbees to be cheap (even $5 works out a little expensive for the mass market). But the market would care less about what is actually printed on the discs, as long as they are cheap.

Copying in my previous email about this.. below...
Cliff
It's a beautiful day!!!
# 9538865520

Hi Marty,
I will need to do some serious thinking about this.

For starters, you need to consider the following:-

Currently, the main action is in Chennai, followed by Bangalore.
Further North, the action is happening in a small way in Ahmedabad, one team in Delhi and one in Mumbai.
To pick up a place big enough and have a stadium would be a significant expenditure. I would suggest that this should get started only after there is a sizable following.
Getting a place for the stadium would be relevant only if it is close enough for people to be able to use it on daily/weekly basis. Currently, the ground would have to be so far away from the city that even traveling to it on weekends would not be popular enough.

I have to agree that the most action is coming out of Chennai. We need to really consider setting something up in Chennai.

To implement a grand plan of getting a stadium going, I suggest that we could get started along the following lines.
Have a tie-up with an existing ground by paying them yearly fees - this will allow us to use avialable infrastructure with minimal payment. Advantage being that these grounds are very accessible (For e.g. Bangalore soccer stadium/hockey stadium/other stadiums or grounds).

Have the sport become popular among the school/college kids
Have the physical trainers of schools trained and educated about the sport
Conduct an inter-school Ultimate frisbee tournament with good prize money
Get lots of Frisbees distributed among schools and give them training
Have weekend training camps for school kids with lunch served
Have a summer camp for kids during their summer vacation (Starting April up to June)

With this, we should be able to start a sizable following for the game in a 6-8 month period.

We should also sponsor the top team for international tournaments in Singapore, etc. This would get more teams interested and raise the competition several notches.

I would suggest that the main approach should be to focus on the main cities (Chennai, Bangalore and maybe Mumbai). Focus on high school kids and junior colleges. Focus on inculcating the game into the school hours (by having tournaments and having the school physical trainers join the force - we can do this by giving them goodies (T shirts, Frisbees, free lunches during conferences, enticing them about what they stand to gain if their team wins the inter-school tournaments)).

We could give a lot more form to these initial ideas and see how we could build on them. I am game to have this pick up in a big way.

I hope you have emailed Manu of Chennai regarding this too. I think he would be able to give his inputs too.

PS: I happened to meet a new player from the US who was talking to me about Disc golf.. I spoke to him about it and got to know the basic rules.


Cliff
It's a beautiful day!!!
# 9538865520



(7-Feb-2010) Indian Ultimate teams are making up their first batch of custom Ultimate discs
from: Bangalore Ultimate


----- From: Mark Scott
To: chennai_ultimate_frisbee@yahoogroups.com; clifford joseph
Cc: Zahlen Titcomb ; Lisa Niemann
Sent: Sun, 7 February, 2010 6:51:03 PM
Subject: Re: [CUF] India Ultimate logo

Thanks for all the input guys. We are looking to incorporate the map of India, club logos (w/o names), & national flag colors.
I am away until Thursday, so harder to be in touch, but hoping over one month will be enough time for everything to come through.
cheers,
Mark


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 4:48 AM, Manu Karan wrote:


To all the budding designers in CUF!



Now's your chance to leave your mark on the Indian Ultimate scene.. come up with a design for India Ultimate (in one.. or two colours max). We're planning to get the first set of 100 "India Ultimate" frisbees printed by Discraft and sold throughout India in all clubs.


Mark came up with this one (see attached).


Only rules being that you cannot have the word "Frisbee" on the design.
You have until this weekend! Those of you who will be working on one, please let me know. We'll have a final vote across clubs and pick one design.

If you happen to be the designer, you get the first frisbee that comes out of the lot free (its on me!)! :-)


cheers,
Manu




(08-Feb-20010) Marty makes a sizeable donation to show a serious commitment, and appeals to others for help....
to: Chenai Ultimate and local disc golf supporters

To show you guys that I am serious about investing in the future of disc sports in India, I'm willing to help pay for these discs. I only ask that they be used to only promote the future of Ultimate in India, not for personal profit. I assume you guys planned on doing so, and so, just let me know when your order for Discraft is ready, and I will make arrangements at Discraft to pay for it up to $400 US to cover discs and shipping (hopefully).

You guys might think about putting something on the design to show our support, like

"discflicker.com"

or logos for anyone else I'm trying to get to help out this cause, but I will leave it entirely up to you.


I hope this gets things rolling in a positive way for Ultimate in India. I will also try to include some golf discs in the package.


IF ANYONE HERE IN THE U.S. WANTS TO HELP THIS EFFORT IN THE FORM OF DONATIONS (money or discs), PLEASE CONTACT ME OR BANGALORE ULTIMATE... THERE ARE 1 BILLION POTENTIAL DISC SPORTS LOVERS IN INDIA AND NO DISC GOLF COURSES YET IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY!

Please forward this to anyone who might help out.


marty
discflicker.com



(08-Feb-2010)
Terry Calhoun immediately chips in, as usual

----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Calhoun
To: Marty Wollner
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [bangalore_ultimate] Fw: [CUF] India Ultimate logo


Marty, I've got $20 to add to your money for this. See you with it at some event soon, I hope.


- Terry




On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Marty Wollner wrote:

Thanks, T !!!

Terry is from

DiscGolfersR.Us

and a great asset to the disc golf world.

Check out his web site.

Maybe Terry can throw in some used golf discs as well.... hint hint!


please forward to anyone interested

marty


Oh, yeah, I can throw in a bunch of used discs.





(08-Feb-2010) Dave McCormack of Gateway replies:



----- Original Message -----
From: David McCormack
To: 'Marty Wollner' ; bangalore_ultimate@yahoogroups.com
Cc: 'Sisolak, Jeffrey (J.)' ; 'Brian Mulnix' ; 'Bill Gilbert, A3 discs' ; 'Dan Hyslop' ; 'Mark' ; 'Manu Karan (Chennai ultimate)' ; 'Preetham Kajekar' ; bhuston@discraft.com ; 'Geoff Bennett' ; 'Bruce Brakel' ; 'Robert Huston' ; 'Terry Calhoun'
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:50 PM
Subject: RE: [bangalore_ultimate] Fw: [CUF] India Ultimate logo


I’m not certain this message was intended for me.



Ive attached our 2010 sales docs if you need something specific from Gateway disc sports?


David McCormack

Owner Gateway Disc Sports

2661 Metro Blvd.

St. Louis, MO 63043

Office 314-487-5204


office@gdstour.com

David@gdstour.com

Cell: 314- 303-1488


BLOG: http://gatewaydiscs.blogspot.com/


video links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR1iPyAR3Pg

http://www.ckaproduction.com/idc08htc1.htm


web: www.gdstour.com

www.gatewaydiscsports.com

www.gatewaydiscgolfdirect.com


(08-Feb-2010) my reply to Dave


Thanks, Dave

I trying to help introduce disc sports to the 1 Billion people of India. On a recent visit, I checked into it, and found no disc golf courses in the entire country! There are only Ultimate teams in a few cities, so I tried to get those guys some golf discs to try out. We feel the only way to get disc golf into India is through Ultimate.

Since my return, I've thought about sponsoring a central disc sports facility in India for Ultimate teams to use, and also build the country's first DG course there as well. I have been in contact with the Bangalore Ultimate teams and we have had several discussions about it.


Dave, the reason I CC'ed you on this is maybe you can also donate some Gateway plastic for the cause, otherwise Discraft will be the only company represented. If you make an Ultimate disc, maybe we should talk about including some in this or another package, and I will pay for them from my own money, and from pledges from a couple other folks, including Terry Calhoun. I'm sure you can see the potential market is there, but all I want is for 1 billion people to have the gift of disc. Wanna help?


Thanks

marty
discflicker.com




(08-Feb-2010) Dave shows interest in the project


Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

I am interested in helping with your efforts to bring disc golf to india.

Are you currently in the US?



David McCormack

Owner Gateway Disc Sports

2661 Metro Blvd.

St. Louis, MO 63043

Office 314-487-5204

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